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Thread: Problems after a transmission job.

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    Post Problems after a transmission job.

    So, this will be a bit of a long post, so TL;DR first

    Bought a Legnum with broken transmission. Had a spare on hand and did the job. Now the car is driving, but seems to have no boost pressure and error codes 43, 72, 24 and 77. Any ideas?

    Now for the whole and long stuff.

    So, the car is a 1996 Pre-facelift VR-4 that seems to be a winter spec. The guy I bought from seemed to have some knowledge on cars, but didn't seem to be most familiar with all the stuff Legnums have going on them. Also the car has seen some better times as it has been fiddled with quite liberally.

    Story of the car before I got it; The dude had some problems with the car getting stuck to third gear. He got a new transmission rebuilt and fitted to the car, but that did not fix the issue. The old transmission and new transmission were of different model numbers(Need to check exact numbers, but same except for ending in A and B respectfully). After that he noticed some moisture in ECU and drying that seemed to get the car going. Though problems were not at an end and next he got the rear end to lock in speed. He changes that by himself and then it came apparent the new transmission was broken and he listed the car for sale.

    So all in all a lot of stuff has happened recently and all seems a bit iffy.

    Still, I got the car and got to work. Turned out the planetary gear set(Not sure on term here. The part that connects to flywheel) had all it's innards smashed. I pieced together the old transmission changing out clutch stuff and seals and such. Now everything should be in place, but I still have quite a bit of problems and not sure where to look for solutions.

    Some mishaps also happened during the work:
    -During dropping the transmission the cables for starter motor got stuck and had some of the weight of the transmission on them until we got them out
    -At first try in starting the car one of the turbo pipes was not connected and the car would not stay in idle

    Now to the problems.

    The car is now driving, but feels a bit sluggish and hard to move. Power steering also has some issues, but the oil for that was a bit low and might be better now that I added some. Real problem is that after driving for a little bit getting to second gear the engine light comes up. Continuing on to the end of third lunges the transmission to limp mode and the N-light starts blinking and there is a jolt. Car drives like this, but very slowly. Also I can hear a slight whistle at all times and boost pressure seems to only be 0.04 at maximum if the instruments installed can be trusted.

    Upon reading the error codes with the dash method I got five codes:
    -N-light: 43 (3 speed complete control of transmission)
    -Engine-light: 72 Ventilation Control Solenoid Valve System <T / C-A / T>
    -ABS-light: 24 Wheel-Speed Sensor (RL) System
    -TCL-light: 77 TCL vacuum system or ventilation solenoid
    -ASC-light: 24 RL wheel speed sensor system

    So, any ideas?

    Not sure on all the mods the car has as it's seen quite a bit of fiddling, but I'll list all that I know or suspect:
    -Intercooler seems like a bigger one
    -Bigger oil cooler
    -HKS SQV4 dump
    -3" exhaust after down pipes
    -Turbo timer(Starbo G-12(No idea how to use and it keeps beeping))
    -Boost gauge
    -Reverse collision indicator and some random button for it seems
    -Some random button in place of headlight adjust. No idea what it does
    -Touch screen Kenwood media player that makes the speakers whine when it's not on
    -Amplifier for speakers in trunk

  2. #2
    Confused's Avatar

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    Firstly, it is CRITICALLY important that the gearbox and ECU are matched. There were about 9 different variations on transmission ECU, and 3 major revisions of the gearbox... A mismatch here doesn't help anything else!

    As for your fault codes...

    Engine 72 / TCL 77: almost definitely the grey vacuum canister on the firewall is cracked, so isn't holding vacuum as expected

    ABS/ASC 24 - almost definitely a broken ABS reluctor ring on the Rear Left.

    Gearbox 43: potentially this ECU/gearbox mismatch, the ECU can't drive the gearbox as expected.

    Even at standstill, just revving the engine, it should make a little boost. Under any kind of load (even if the gearbox is stuck in 3rd) you should be reaching ~0.4 bar boost. Double-check that you don't have any boost leaks, and that all pipes are connected properly.


    I think your biggest issue is a gearbox/TCU mismatch - drop a matching pair in there, and things should start getting better!

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    Thanks a lot!

    Tomorrow I'm going to be taking the turbo piping off that I had to take off earlier for the transmission job, so going to check those thoroughly.

    As for the transmission ECU, I'm thinking it should be the original the car has had, as the seller gave all the old stuff to me on sale and it did not include any ECU except the on in the car. Will check the model tomorrow also and ping the seller if he has any parts left accidentally.

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    Here is a list of the auto gearbox & ECUs, and the dates of change - hopefully you can source a correct matching pair!

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    Thanks!

    I actually just got a message back from the seller saying that the ECU was never touched(going to double check still tomorrow), so I'm expecting there to be a MD975141 ECU with the current W5A51-3-E6A transmission that should match. According to him the combo was also working with the W5A51-3-E6B transmission, but I quess that was a lucky accident.

    Any other ideas what the transmission problem could be except for the mismatching ECU? I'm thinking of checking the sensors, that their connectors are correctly and that the ECU connector is firm, but other than that I'm leaning on the harness having gotten damage during the removal of the trans.

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    The ATF must meet the Mitsubishi Diamond SP-III spec, anything else will cause issues. If you're not certain what's in the car you should consider changing it.
    '97 Manual Legnum in silver with some subtle mods

    My first VR4 - '97 Legnum Dark Green & mean ...it was love at first sight - now sold

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    Yup, went with Amsoil so should be good on that! Though I do think I have a bigger oil cooler so not sure how much more oil I would need due to that. Any idea if a 100-200ml difference could cause something like this?

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    You should be filling it to the marks on the dipstick anyway! Did you do the proper procedure to check the hot level too?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Confused View Post
    You should be filling it to the marks on the dipstick anyway! Did you do the proper procedure to check the hot level too?
    Would you happen to have a link to the procedure? I went with the amounts from the oils and liquids post since that all I came across scouring here. Could very well be then that the oil level is not close enough. I did check it cold and hot that it's in the markings, but did not do it in any specific way.

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    The dipstick has Cold and Hot markings. Basically, once it's up to operating temperature, park on flat, level ground, and make sure you cycle it through P-R-N-D-N-R-N-D etc a few times, then flick it over to tiptronic mode, and move between 1st and 2nd a few times. Then go back to Reverse and back into Drive etc. Finally, leave it in Neutral, and check the dipstick.

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    I did fix an issue like this on a friend's car.
    Similar issues but car would drive ok through all gears. Then it would drop into limp mode.
    Long store short. The input or out speed sensor on top of the gearbox. The one that sits in a recess.
    Had corroded. Due to water getting in there.
    The terminal had turned to green powder. And the signal failed. So Limp mode was triggered.
    Replaced the sensor and reteminated the plug and all was good.
    But this was on a known good working gear box.

    Bye for Now!

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    I also had an issue after replacing an auto box many many years ago, where the car would drop into limp mode as you applied a bit of throttle to it.
    With no load, very low revs the gearbox would go in D.
    Then 1, 2, 3, limp mode immediately.
    I had not followed the alignment process of the selector switch on top of the gear box when I connector the cable.
    It was close but not close enough.when I selected D on the stick. The gear box selector switch was slightly off. And it was this that caused the problems.
    A quick realignment and it worked perfectly.

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    Does the car drive in tiptronic manual shifting mode?

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    By the way it does sound like a mismatch gearbox to ECU issue I am just trying to exhaust all other possibilities. Before you start hunting and buying new parts.

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    Double post

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    Wow! I do so much love this community! Would not have expected so many answers and so good ones!

    Quote Originally Posted by Confused View Post
    The dipstick has Cold and Hot markings. Basically, once it's up to operating temperature, park on flat, level ground, and make sure you cycle it through P-R-N-D-N-R-N-D etc a few times, then flick it over to tiptronic mode, and move between 1st and 2nd a few times. Then go back to Reverse and back into Drive etc. Finally, leave it in Neutral, and check the dipstick.
    Thanks a lot for this one! Will check it in a few hours. If that is the problem will just have to find some Amsoil from Finland quickly

    Quote Originally Posted by Davezj View Post
    I did fix an issue like this on a friend's car.
    Similar issues but car would drive ok through all gears. Then it would drop into limp mode.
    Long store short. The input or out speed sensor on top of the gearbox. The one that sits in a recess.
    Had corroded. Due to water getting in there.
    The terminal had turned to green powder. And the signal failed. So Limp mode was triggered.
    Replaced the sensor and reteminated the plug and all was good.
    But this was on a known good working gear box.
    I did have to change one of the sensors from the other box as the case was broken. I think I'll check both and part numbers for them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Davezj View Post
    I also had an issue after replacing an auto box many many years ago, where the car would drop into limp mode as you applied a bit of throttle to it.
    With no load, very low revs the gearbox would go in D.
    Then 1, 2, 3, limp mode immediately.
    I had not followed the alignment process of the selector switch on top of the gear box when I connector the cable.
    It was close but not close enough.when I selected D on the stick. The gear box selector switch was slightly off. And it was this that caused the problems.
    A quick realignment and it worked perfectly.
    I did do the alignment when attaching to the gear box, but initially attached the wire badly and had to fiddle with that. Will double check with great attention to detail! Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by Davezj View Post
    Does the car drive in tiptronic manual shifting mode?
    It is shifting, but does go to limp mode even with tiptronic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Davezj View Post
    By the way it does sound like a mismatch gearbox to ECU issue I am just trying to exhaust all other possibilities. Before you start hunting and buying new parts.
    Yeah, I know. Need to check the part number on the ECU just in case. Just need to find where it is and how to easily check that

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    ECU is behind/below the radio. Remove the kick panel on the passenger side of the centre console, and the small access flap beside the pedals. The part number should be on the side of the casing (it's the lower of the 2 ECUs) - the one with the 3 plugs on the front, not the 4 plugs (that's the engine ECU).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Confused View Post
    ECU is behind/below the radio. Remove the kick panel on the passenger side of the centre console, and the small access flap beside the pedals. The part number should be on the side of the casing (it's the lower of the 2 ECUs) - the one with the 3 plugs on the front, not the 4 plugs (that's the engine ECU).
    Thanks! Will check that first thing when I get to garage.

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    First update; ECU is MD761988, so that should be a match as far as I think. Will post update when I get a little bit more sorted out.

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    So, updates. Was home so late last night that did not bother to log in.

    First the good news; Found boost pressure! Got to 1bar according to the turbo timer thingie. There was one pipe that had the under side of the lip twisted and fitting that correctly seemed to fix that.

    Then the "neutral"
    -Sensors seemed to be in good order. Gave them a clean and checked all cables
    -Vacuum chamber seemed to be in good order and tubes were tight. Some wear, but nothing that should leak.
    -Swifter cable and thingie seemed to be perfectly aligned when shifting to neutral and checking the alignment hole.

    Only thing that seemed to be off was the oil amount. Went for a tiny drive and had a much better experience with the boost pressure. Actually got to fourth gear once! But then parked to a flat area, cycled the gears and checked the oil amount. Seems like I need to by more as the line was quite exactly on the limit of hot and cold. So anything more is going to go to next week as I have not found a local dealer for Amsoil and can't get it delivered during the weekend it seems.

    Thanks a lot for all the advice! Even though most seem to be in order I have a lot more to go on if the oil amount does not solve it. Hopefully it does and I can finally make a more general post of the car and get opinions

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