Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 41 to 59 of 59

Thread: Problems after a transmission job.

  1. #41

    Offline
     
    Name
    Petri
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Last Online
    Today
    Posts
    33
    Country
    Other
    Car
    Legnum
     
    To keep anyone interested up to date. Updates!

    Just came back from the garage and pulled out all the clutch packs that are accessible from the side. Issue seems to be much clearer now.

    At the back of the clutch pack where the wave ring sits I found some minor damage like something had been chafing quite tightly on the stuff at the back and the steel ring on the clutch pack had quite a bit of the metal dust on them when rest of the trans seemed to be clean.

    So my current hypothesis is that when putting the clutch pack together I have messed up the order or the widths of the steel plates.

    Next step is that I'll try to look up a good source for the correct order(Thanks Davezj one of the links has quite good one) and make a metrical width and order chart off of that to use and arrange them correctly. Nothing seemed to be damaged too badly, so just general wear in a short time period. Good thing I didn't do more driving with the car.

    Updates will likely have to wait till next week as I have some plans during the weekend.

  2. #42

    Offline
     
    Name
    Petri
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Last Online
    Today
    Posts
    33
    Country
    Other
    Car
    Legnum
     
    Okay, so car is still not running great and still in the garage.

    This week I did the clutch through the side panel and did have some stuff there in wrong order and such. Now all the clutch plates should be in order, correct sizes and such.

    I lost quite a bit of ATF when doing the job(had to leave it for the weekend open and it poured on the ground) and so had to wait for a while to get more and now there should be the correct amount checked when warm and cycling through gears.

    I also changed the input and output sensors to new ones.

    Symtoms still quite the same.
    -R and 1st work quite well
    -2nd seems to work, but feels like it looses power when raising revs
    -3rd seems to not engage at all without limp mode, but shows that is would be selected on the dash.
    -Got some bad whining somewhere. Almost seems like itís coming from the back of the car, so not sure if there is something wrong going back from the transfer box.

    So, not good. Need to think a bit on what to do next. It almost feels like the trans is not shifting to anything past the first one as the shift to second is really not noticeable, but definitely not switching to third.

    Also, does anyone know how the planetary gear set(the middle thing when you open the side panel) should lock into place? The manual for the newer trans said thet it should freewheel one direction and stop on the other. The planetary from the new box did this with a band that is missing from the older one and that seems like it should never have been there in the old one so not sure how it should be.

  3. #43
    Confused's Avatar

    Offline
     
    Name
    Garry
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Last Online
    Today
    Membership ID
    714
    Posts
    3,349
    Country
    United Kingdom
    Location
    Notts
    Car
    Legnum VR-4
    My Garage
    Visit
     
    Earlier boxes did not have a OWC (One Way Clutch), later ones did. This does sound more and more like an ECU/gearbox mismatch to me.


    The fact that you don't know exactly what combination of everything you've got - I would seriously consider trying to get hold of a matched pair of gearbox and ECU, taken straight out of a working car.

  4. #44

    Offline
     
    Name
    Petri
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Last Online
    Today
    Posts
    33
    Country
    Other
    Car
    Legnum
     
    Quote Originally Posted by Confused View Post
    Earlier boxes did not have a OWC (One Way Clutch), later ones did. This does sound more and more like an ECU/gearbox mismatch to me.


    The fact that you don't know exactly what combination of everything you've got - I would seriously consider trying to get hold of a matched pair of gearbox and ECU, taken straight out of a working car.
    That weird, both of my boxes have the OWC marking on the case and the A one should be one of the first ones as the car is a 1996 model.

    The number on the ECU is G1T18275F2 and the trans is W5A51-3-E6A so those should be a match. Thinking of taking the ECU out to check if there is anything weird with it. Of course it can be that I messed up and put some component in that is from the B trans.

    If I do find a matching trans&ECU combo, is there any limitations on which model I find? As long as the ECU is matching.

  5. #45

    Offline
     
    Name
    Petri
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Last Online
    Today
    Posts
    33
    Country
    Other
    Car
    Legnum
     
    Quote Originally Posted by Davezj View Post
    The dust as you call it will be friction material. Meaning it is not on your friction plates any more it is in the oil. Any metal shavings in the oil is a very bad thing. If they are big enough to see it is bad.
    Not sure if metal shavings or friction material. It did stuck to the plug quite well so thinking it was magnetic and friction material should not be I think. Though it did seem that the plates in clutch were too tight and seemed to have more darker oil than other parts, so thinking that is where it came from. Also no visible chunks or anything, just a pile of dust on the plug as if it had been running a long time since last oil change.

  6. #46

    Offline
     
    Name
    Petri
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Last Online
    Today
    Posts
    33
    Country
    Other
    Car
    Legnum
     
    Quickly looking new trans seems to not be an option currently. One found in Finland with no ECU and from UK it would cost 3000e with UPS.

    Edit: Got in touch more with the seller. Seems like he had quite similar symptoms when the trans was not working. He solved it with cleaning the ECU(corrosion on the pins or something) and it started working. Thinking there might be something wrong with the ECU itself. Took it out, cleaned and waiting for it to dry to do a little reflow on the solder and then clean the connectors and try it out.
    Last edited by Quido3; 01-10-2021 at 06:03 PM.

  7. #47

    Offline
     
    Name
    Petri
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Last Online
    Today
    Posts
    33
    Country
    Other
    Car
    Legnum
     
    Went in to check on the ECU and solenoid contacts. No help, but noticed some smoke coming out of the trans oil dipstick. Seems like I just have to drop the trans again.

  8. #48

    Offline
     
    Name
    Petri
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Last Online
    Today
    Posts
    33
    Country
    Other
    Car
    Legnum
     
    So, a quick question. Do you think the oil tube thingy on the side of the clutch could be causing these issues? Last time I changed it to a new one as it was a bit ruffled, but now that I took the clutch pack out it seems to be even worse off this time. So likeli messed it up putting the pack in.

    Why Iím asking is that after changing that last time(also changing clutch stack plates and stuff) the symptoms got a little different. Initially a bit better but worse after for minutes. The outer stack almost feels like it has less oil on it than the rest of the pack and there is still some metal dust in the oil, but also non magnetic dust.

    Thinking that the oil wonít get to the overdrive clutch and thatís causing too much friction in the stack there and causing more dust from all the conponents. Although it seems that reverse is also on the same part of the clutch and it seems to be working alright.

  9. #49
    Davezj's Avatar

    Offline
     
    Name
    Dave
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Last Online
    Today
    Posts
    16,225
    Country
    England
    Location
    Manchester
    Car
    VR-4
     
    I don't know enough about the inner working of an auto box to help diagnose your issue.
    it sounds like you have done something wrong when started changing things round inside the gearbox.
    i would advise you to take the gear box to a auto box specialist for them to fix the issue.

    you might have caused more problems than you started with by fitting parts the wrong way round and driving the car further you might be causing more damage to the auto box.

    Bye for Now!

  10. #50

    Offline
     
    Name
    Petri
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Last Online
    Today
    Posts
    33
    Country
    Other
    Car
    Legnum
     
    Quote Originally Posted by Davezj View Post
    I don't know enough about the inner working of an auto box to help diagnose your issue.
    it sounds like you have done something wrong when started changing things round inside the gearbox.
    i would advise you to take the gear box to a auto box specialist for them to fix the issue.

    you might have caused more problems than you started with by fitting parts the wrong way round and driving the car further you might be causing more damage to the auto box.
    That is also highly likely. My reasoning continuing with the repair is that I want to learn this. Also, if there is something wrong with the hard parts they are very likely already toasted, so most reasonable thing to fix it is getting a new box and overhauling that with new bearings and plates and such.

    I was just starting to drop the trans when I noticed the 2nd clutch seal was quite broken(likely due to error installing) and did some research. Seems like the pressure for the 2nd clutch is necessary on the third gear and up based on the guide on how to test the pressure points in the transmission. Based on that it would be really fitting that the seal could be the cuprit.

    Anyways, current plan is to wait for the seal to come from amayama, change that from the other side as indicated in the manual and try once more. Hopefully it fixes something, but if not I'm going to drop the trans and possibly call a local workshop that has specialized in Mitsubisthi(found them last night) and even do some auto trans case reinforcing inhouse and see if they have any suggestions on what they could do to help.

  11. #51

    Offline
     
    Name
    Petri
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Last Online
    Today
    Posts
    33
    Country
    Other
    Car
    Legnum
     
    So, a little bit of progress and hopefully tomorrow I will know where the specific problem part is.

    I've now changed the valve body, went through the clutch side, replaced the annoying seal on the side of the clutch and adjusted&checked electrically the gear selector.

    Went for a test drive today and tried to push the car more than previously. I think I feel the transmission shifting gears, but any gear above first and reverse are slipping almost totally; so my reasoning is that either the clutch side is slipping of the friction plates in the gearset on the other side. Having gome more though the workshop manual I uploaded previously I am going to be measuring the input- and output-sensor readings with a oscilloscope to figure out which of the two is the culprit.

    Most likely it is the gearset, as I just today tought to check the gearset I have in the box and that is from the box that is not installed. Meaning that the one installed is the original that belongs to the box and also has the old friction plates. Other friction plated were in very bad shape on the current box, so likely those are too and likely they have gone to even worse shape as they went in dry and not soaked.

    All in all hopefully tomorrow I will know what I need to do and can finally get the car on the road to being ont he road .

  12. #52

    Offline
     
    Name
    Petri
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Last Online
    Today
    Posts
    33
    Country
    Other
    Car
    Legnum
     
    Alas; after multiple fiddling session and changing the tranmission once more, THE CAR IS RUNNING AND IT'S AMAZING.

    So finally I can get to use it.

    Last bits I did was drop the A-transmission(seemed to be crooked in the core for some reason), fitted all the parts to the B-transmission, changed some clutch side selective parts to bigger ones and changed the transmission oil. A bit rough shift currently on 3rd, but I did not do the proper flush of the oil and did not use the best oil this time, so going to order some AmSoil and do it my self or go to the Mitsu shop locally so they can do it with the machine(cost though is close to 500€ so still debating).

  13. #53
    TAR's Avatar

    Offline
     
    Name
    Tim
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Last Online
    Today
    Membership ID
    346
    Posts
    3,771
    Country
    United Kingdom
    Location
    Aylesbury
    Car
    '97 Legnum
    My Garage
    Visit
     
    Gearbox flush is not that difficult if you follow the guide on here https://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showth...box+oil+change
    '97 Manual Legnum in silver with some subtle mods

    My first VR4 - '97 Legnum Dark Green & mean ...it was love at first sight - now sold

  14. #54

    Offline
     
    Name
    Petri
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Last Online
    Today
    Posts
    33
    Country
    Other
    Car
    Legnum
     
    Quote Originally Posted by TAR View Post
    Gearbox flush is not that difficult if you follow the guide on here https://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showth...box+oil+change
    Yeah, been reading that since long before getting the car actually . Any idea how well that flushes more stubborn stuff out of the gearbox and transfer case? I likely currently have quite a bit of black sludge in some places due to all the hassle that has been going on and was hoping to get it sparkly clean. Some places do a chemical wash before putting in the new oil, but not sure if it's possible with this box and if any of those places near me know how to get the correct oils in .

  15. #55
    Confused's Avatar

    Offline
     
    Name
    Garry
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Last Online
    Today
    Membership ID
    714
    Posts
    3,349
    Country
    United Kingdom
    Location
    Notts
    Car
    Legnum VR-4
    My Garage
    Visit
     
    Anything that's loose and in the oil should come out using that process - I wouldn't be too happy with doing a chemical wash - you've no idea how those things might affect the box internals itself.

    Once some Amsoil is in there, things will likely start to get even better - maybe do another full change after a few thousand miles?

  16. #56
    TAR's Avatar

    Offline
     
    Name
    Tim
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Last Online
    Today
    Membership ID
    346
    Posts
    3,771
    Country
    United Kingdom
    Location
    Aylesbury
    Car
    '97 Legnum
    My Garage
    Visit
     
    I trust Amsoil ATF to be a quality product so this may also do what it says however, I've never used it...

    https://www.oldhallperformance.com/a...h-473ml-bottle

  17. #57

    Offline
     
    Name
    simon
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Last Online
    Today
    Membership ID
    1155
    Posts
    147
    Country
    Wales
    Car
    Galant/legnum
    My Garage
    Visit
     
    And remember to change the AT filter on top as its hidden away , especially on an auto.
    Just make sure the area is clean of bits of old plastic wire casing and fairly easy to remove with the correct type of filter removal tool
    s-l1600 (2).jpg

  18. #58
    Confused's Avatar

    Offline
     
    Name
    Garry
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Last Online
    Today
    Membership ID
    714
    Posts
    3,349
    Country
    United Kingdom
    Location
    Notts
    Car
    Legnum VR-4
    My Garage
    Visit
     
    Assuming it's one of the boxes with an external filter - not all of them have an external filter!

  19. #59

    Offline
     
    Name
    Petri
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Last Online
    Today
    Posts
    33
    Country
    Other
    Car
    Legnum
     
    Quote Originally Posted by Confused View Post
    Anything that's loose and in the oil should come out using that process - I wouldn't be too happy with doing a chemical wash - you've no idea how those things might affect the box internals itself.

    Once some Amsoil is in there, things will likely start to get even better - maybe do another full change after a few thousand miles?
    Just ordered some Amsoil and other oils, so hopefully I can get those in soon. Already did a flush with a worse oil, but at least it's cleaner oil now.

    Quote Originally Posted by TAR View Post
    I trust Amsoil ATF to be a quality product so this may also do what it says however, I've never used it...

    https://www.oldhallperformance.com/a...h-473ml-bottle
    Might have to look into that a bit but looks promising.

    Quote Originally Posted by Braddy40 View Post
    And remember to change the AT filter on top as its hidden away , especially on an auto.
    Just make sure the area is clean of bits of old plastic wire casing and fairly easy to remove with the correct type of filter removal tool
    s-l1600 (2).jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by Confused View Post
    Assuming it's one of the boxes with an external filter - not all of them have an external filter!
    I actually do have one, so a good reminder! Both boxes I have actually have them.

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Similar Threads

  1. auto/transmission problems...help
    By rajvr497 in forum Gearbox / Transmission
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 08-01-2014, 02:08 PM
  2. engine mount causing transmission problems?
    By SEAN-NZ in forum Engine
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 16-05-2012, 01:55 PM
  3. Paint Job Problems, Big Problems!!!
    By kinger in forum UK Chat
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 27-03-2010, 02:52 PM
  4. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 22-03-2005, 10:53 PM
  5. Transmission oil
    By Andre in forum General / Questions
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 30-09-2004, 08:02 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •