E-Manage mapping ideas

[paulmc]

As some of you will know I plan to fit my e-manage this time home, below is what I plan to do, please add your comments, ideas or criticism


BOOST 1.3bar dropping to 1.1 @6500rpm after 4500rpm, This keep the turbo in the 72 to 65% efficiency.

FUEL Start @ 1.00 Lambda dropping gradually to 0.9 Lambda @ 3000rpm. Steady from 3000 to 4500rpm then dropping gradually again to 0.8 Lambda @6500

IGNITION Not sure here, it all depends if the e-manage can tell me what factory setting it is running on. If not it will be trial and error advancing and retarding timing on hearing DET, I also plan to use my power meter thing ( forgot what it is called) to see when I stop making power when advancing timing. I know this is not the most accurate way as a rolling road would be better, on saying that most tuners MAP on the road only. Most mappers know loads more than me though.

I plan to raise the boost first, then set fuel as above then set timing. This may not happen exactally in this order all depends on DET. I am keen to get the boost and fuel set up correctally as changing Fuel / Boost changes the timing in a round about kind of way.

If you richen up the mixture it burnes slower so max power is made later in the combustion cycle so kind of retards ignition if you see what I mean. that is why I need to set boost and fuel as soon as I can

Boost also makes the mixture burn faster as the molecules are closer together (compressed) so burn quicker again this is like advancing the ignition.

The above don't actually change the ignition timing all they do is change the speed at which the mixture burns, that is why boost caused DET (Burns quicker) and rich mixture reduces DET (Burns slower)

This needs to be done at every load site 256 I think

To what degree the 2 statements above change the flame front I have no idea until I start playing

I have never done this before so not sure how it will go, if any of the above sounds daft etc please comment good or bad I dont mind

[Kieran]

Sounds interesting. The only comments I would make is that the late Pete Johnson melted a compressor wheel at around 1.3/1.4 bar, so be careful.

Also, if you're not sure what effect ignition timing will have on things, then maybe you should play around with this for a while before doing anything else, just so you can get a 'feel' for it's effects?

Can you explain the Lambda readings a bit more? I presume that 0.8 is quite rich in order to prevent high boost and engine revs from causing detonation? Also, what Lambda readings are you getting as standard?

[paulmc]

Yeah I read about his turbos giving up, that is the main reason I will be dropping boost from 4500rpm, just hope they will cope with this.

Good idea re ignition, I think there will be a lot of playing before i get any where, just hope the wife likes driving

Yes 0.8 Lambda is 11.8 AFR. This is just wasting fuel to keep things cooler and DET away.

0.9 Lambda 13.2 AFR is arguably best for power, depends on what you read or who you speak to.

On saying that a lot of folkes try for 0.82 = 12.1 AFR, but this is only at max power and revs, all the graphs I have looked at start around 0.9 dropping to 0.8 and some even lower but only at max revs

With only running 1.1bar boost at 6500rpm I dont think I will have to many probs with DET but you never know, It is more when you start running 1.5bar and above that cylinder pressures go through the roof.

I am running at 0.68 Lambda 10.1 AFR at the moment, megga rich

change Lambda to AFR Multiply by 14.7

[zentac]

Im running 11.5 (err... 0.78) across the board which is on the safe side.

[Wodjno]

All sounds very interesting also viable..
Your going be using the LM-1 aswell aren't you .. ? When you road test the car you will be able to record all your data and anylyse it with LOG Works on your Lap Top once your finished. And you will be ableto see it in real time if you take your Lap Top with you.. If your using the RPM converter you should be able to get all the info you need.

[bradc]

why don't you try to keep 1.2 bar to at least 5500rpm, then reduce it? If you look at say my dyno you'll see that boost stays high until 5800rpm or so, then drops off quite steeply. That way you will maximise your power through the rev range.

As for the A/F ratio, I've heard that 12.5 is about as lean as you would want to go at full load, anything more and you are running the engine too lean and may cause detonation and the engine running too hot.

[pezza]

Interesting reading here...

Will be good to read the completed article about the install, mapping and changes fuelling makes with this e-manage unit.

So many ideas inspired by Valmes

The install date is getting closer and closer eh Paul? Eager?

I rang a couple of places and they have quoted around 300+VAT for install and mapping (2-3 hours)... for e-manage. Most will say.. 'yes we have worked on a few early EVOs but never worked on a VR-4'...

OK here come the questions:

Have you bought the support tool and cable for laptop monitoring and logging as well as advanced tuning?

HAve you found any other articles about tuning with e-manage - with both ignition and injector control, it sounds like a careful job of trial and error always erring on the side of caution.

Finally any knowledge about the pressure harnesses with sensors to monitor airflow? (instead of the stock MAF unit?)

I sense interest is building around e-manage and a few are about to go down
this route..

I am looking at the wibedand sensors at the mo too. Anyone know if the LC-1 will more or less do the same job as LM-1 and output to a standard digital multimeter (apart from RPM function) ?

Cheers


Pezz (about to sign on the dotted line)

[paulmc]

why don't you try to keep 1.2 bar to at least 5500rpm, then reduce it? If you look at say my dyno you'll see that boost stays high until 5800rpm or so, then drops off quite steeply. That way you will maximise your power through the rev range.

As for the A/F ratio, I've heard that 12.5 is about as lean as you would want to go at full load, anything more and you are running the engine too lean and may cause detonation and the engine running too hot.

Yes I could run 1.2bar to 5500rpm but I was trying to be kind to the turbos as they are pretty much flat out at what I propose, 1.2bar would be right on the overspin line @5500 on saying that 1.1bar @ 6500 is right on the same limit but my thoughts were to not heat them up to much through the rev range and save a wee bit for the topend

AFR's eveyone seem to have a different idea of what is right here, I think again there will be a bit of trial and error here.

Ideally I should monitor the exhaust gas temp at the same time, may have to but a gauge at some point

[paulmc]

Interesting reading here...

Will be good to read the completed article about the install, mapping and changes fuelling makes with this e-manage unit.

So many ideas inspired by Valmes

The install date is getting closer and closer eh Paul? Eager?

I rang a couple of places and they have quoted around 300+VAT for install and mapping (2-3 hours)... for e-manage. Most will say.. 'yes we have worked on a few early EVOs but never worked on a VR-4'...

OK here come the questions:

Have you bought the support tool and cable for laptop monitoring and logging as well as advanced tuning?

HAve you found any other articles about tuning with e-manage - with both ignition and injector control, it sounds like a careful job of trial and error always erring on the side of caution.

Finally any knowledge about the pressure harnesses with sensors to monitor airflow? (instead of the stock MAF unit?)

I sense interest is building around e-manage and a few are about to go down
this route..

I am looking at the wibedand sensors at the mo too. Anyone know if the LC-1 will more or less do the same job as LM-1 and output to a standard digital multimeter (apart from RPM function) ?

Cheers


Pezz (about to sign on the dotted line)

Yes eagar, I want to go home and start now

I have the support tool and cable for my laptop so can do logging

I wish I had found other articles on e-mangae it might give me some idea of what I am aiming for, and as you say caution will be high on my list

No not looked into pressure sensor, may have to go down that route if I get bigger turbos as the MAF has a limit but that is miles off yet see if can get this to work first

Not looked at the LC-1

[enigma]

No not looked into pressure sensor, may have to go down that route if I get bigger turbos as the MAF has a limit but that is miles off yet see if can get this to work first

The pressure sensor works in conjunction with the MAF, so until you hit the limit of the MAF you shouldn't need it.

I AM GOING TO INSTALL MINE THIS WEEKEND!

[paulmc]

The pressure sensor works in conjunction with the MAF, so until you hit the limit of the MAF you shouldn't need it.

I AM GOING TO INSTALL MINE THIS WEEKEND!

Remember and do a how 2 save me doing it

So by the time I get home you will have loads of fuel, boost and ignition settings for me to try

[zentac]

If anyone is interested Im going to be looking at the DTA engine management system that all the hill climb boys use. Its quite cheap for a full replacement and if I should be able to install & set it up myself.

[zentac]

http://www.dtafast.co.uk

[zentac]

I AM GOING TO INSTALL MINE THIS WEEKEND!

Give me a shout if you need a hand I think Im free saturday afternoon when Ive recovered from my hangover!!!

[paulmc]

If anyone is interested Im going to be looking at the DTA engine management system that all the hill climb boys use. Its quite cheap for a full replacement and if I should be able to install & set it up myself.

That looks a very good system with easy to use screens etc, it will be interesting to see how you get on

[paulmc]

All sounds very interesting also viable..
Your going be using the LM-1 aswell aren't you .. ? When you road test the car you will be able to record all your data and anylyse it with LOG Works on your Lap Top once your finished. And you will be ableto see it in real time if you take your Lap Top with you.. If your using the RPM converter you should be able to get all the info you need.

I have not got the RPM converter, prob should have bought this it as it will make life easier

[paulmc]

I rang a couple of places and they have quoted around 300+VAT for install and mapping (2-3 hours)... for e-manage. Most will say.. 'yes we have worked on a few early EVOs but never worked on a VR-4'...

£300 + vat aint that bad.

Depending what Dave does in the way of a "how to" I am sure between the 2 of us the near £400 should be reduced to nothing.

Obviously it is best to map every car but I am sure there would be some generic settings to give a good MAP and power. after all that is what you get when you by a chip.

I will post my settings / findings when I fit it.

Can't get cheaper than FREE

[valmes]

Every car is different, so everyone would need to adjust fuel and ignition on individual basis. May be this info is of some use...

Very approximate numbers, because I deleted my old Support Tool and started playing with new one for Ultimate...

with 3,5 bar base fuel pressure(~51psi), stock boost.
3000 -15%
4000 -17%
5000 -17%
6000 -20%

I noticed that my AFR would go down from 12.7:1 at ~5000-5500 rpm... to 13.3:1 at 7400 rpm, it was related to Boost Fuel Cut elimination feature, input from MAF was cut at some point and didn't rise any further, so ECU supplied just enough fuel to keep it happy, but as RPM rised, so did the real demand for fuel, hence leaning. At this point I had to add some fuel via additional injection table (directly pulsing the injectors).
I noticed one interesting thing though - my car was pulling strongest at 13:1-
13:3! May be something is wrong with my lambda?
PS: BTW, I sold my e-manage Blue to a guy driving 1997 Galant VR-4. We are going to try this "boost via sub injectors" thing, so will update you of what maps worked for him.

[paulmc]

I noticed one interesting thing though - my car was pulling strongest at 13:1-
13:3! May be something is wrong with my lambda?

That is about right most power being made @0.9 Lambda 13.2 AFR just not that good at protecting your engine. Anything richer than that is always for the engines protection and to keep EGT under control

[valmes]

My EGTs under hard acceleration were at most 890C...