What turbo upgrades have you done?

[bradc]

Kieran, have a read of http://www.stealth316.com/2-turboguide.htm and http://www.stealth316.com/2-3s-compflowmaps.htm

The trick is to get a turbo that supports the airflow you need at a viable boost level. For 100hp you need about 150-160cfm of airflow. If you look at the TD04-13G map, you'll see that if you want to run 14psi (absolute pressure of just below 2) that you will be able to flow about 250cfm at reasonable efficiency, but if you really want to push it, you'll be able to to 350-360cfm, which is about 230hp per turbo, or 460hp for the whole car.

Valmes has already said that TD04's spool up quickly on our cars, so these would be a very good turbo for our cars.

Valmes - great results, I can't wait until you increase the boost a little more, I think the results will be very interesting at 1bar or more.

[zentac]

There a few that have done some light work to the turbos.. zentac is currently converting to a single turbo.. but no large scale work has ever been done...

What you mean.... putting a VR4 engine in an FTO then converting it to single turbo is pritty large stuff if you ask me.... what else do you want me to do? Convert it to 4WD.... oh go on then If I must

[Kieran]

What you mean.... putting a VR4 engine in an FTO then converting it to single turbo is pritty large stuff if you ask me.... what else do you want me to do? Convert it to 4WD.... oh go on then If I must

Show off!

[Eurospec]

You can use stock manifolds.
Downpipes... well, what you really need are those parts coming of the turbo exhaust sides and down to downpipes.
Oil and coolant lines to turbos - stock lines will work with some modifications.

So in a prefect world of course you would need custom made manifolds, new downpipes and 4 oil lines plus 4 water lines, but...

PS: I advice you get an oil filter relocation/movement kit.

I thought the blowers on these cars were TD04 based units anyway? Obviously not!

If they arent then the largest ammount of fabbing would be on the turbo exhaust housing to downpipe connections as you suggest. I would call that the O2 housing, but i dont know what you guys call it. The feed/drain lines wouldnt be that bad to do.

TD04's arent all the same external dimensions- for example the 13T's will likely be bigger as they often use the compressor housing from a scooby, which is a lot bigger than a TD04 compressor housing. A true TD04 turbo, eg a 9b, 13G or 15G will be the same external size unless you start gettiing into the TD04L and HL

Cheers,

Ben.

[valmes]

I thought the blowers on these cars were TD04 based units anyway? Obviously not!

If they arent then the largest ammount of fabbing would be on the turbo exhaust housing to downpipe connections as you suggest. I would call that the O2 housing, but i dont know what you guys call it. The feed/drain lines wouldnt be that bad to do.

TD04's arent all the same external dimensions- for example the 13T's will likely be bigger as they often use the compressor housing from a scooby, which is a lot bigger than a TD04 compressor housing. A true TD04 turbo, eg a 9b, 13G or 15G will be the same external size unless you start gettiing into the TD04L and HL

Cheers,

Ben.

Our stock turbos are TD03s. They a bit smaller even than a proper TD04.

We don't call it O2 housing simply because we have single O2 sensor mounted right after the downpipe, not like GTO which has two O2 sensors after each turbo, hence the name for the part I guess.

I did have some "not enough space" kinda problems while fitting TD04L-13Ts, but nothing major. Push firewall a little, move oil filter holder, change radiator fan to a thinner one (from 3000GT)... stuff like that.


2 Bradc
I can't wait myself, but I wanna do it right. No excuses for me if I blow yet another engine just for few minutes of fun!

[zentac]

Our stock turbos are TD03s. They a bit smaller even than a proper TD04.

We don't call it O2 housing simply because we have single O2 sensor mounted right after the downpipe, not like GTO which has two O2 sensors after each turbo, hence the name for the part I guess.

I did have some "not enough space" kinda problems while fitting TD04L-13Ts, but nothing major. Push firewall a little, move oil filter holder, change radiator fan to a thinner one (from 3000GT)... stuff like that.


2 Bradc
I can't wait myself, but I wanna do it right. No excuses for me if I blow yet another engine just for few minutes of fun!

I looked at the TD04 's but I already had to do everything Valmes mentioned just to get the VR4 engine into the FTO so I had no room at all for the TD04's

[d3x]

I looked at the TD04 's but I already had to do everything Valmes mentioned just to get the VR4 engine into the FTO so I had no room at all for the TD04's

not like you to admit defeat, theres me thinking that you could do anything with these engines...

[zentac]

it would have meant moving the radiator and cutting a hole in the bulkhead as I couldnt move it any more.

[Eurospec]

How about a hybred TD03 then? That way you can get round the tricky bits.

I´m pretty sure we could build something for a trial if somone has a pair of old spare snails laying around. At least if i had a set i could see what we can do.

Anyone know the std a/r? Maybe try something ´small´ to start to make sure it will spool it.

Cheers,

Ben.

[Nick Mann]

I have a pair of mullered turbos that have already been worked on. I guess they won't be much help, but if you want them then let me know where you are!

[valmes]

I think they a far TOO small to start with... no point in moding them - leave them as is or change them altogether.

[bradc]

I agree with valmes, no point dicking around with our little small turbos, just get new ones

[Eurospec]

I have a pair of mullered turbos that have already been worked on. I guess they won't be much help, but if you want them then let me know where you are!

Hello mate i'm in surrey. I'll pm you the address.

Guys, why do you think it wont work to build a hybred? Is the exhaust housing way too small or what?

Cheers,

Ben.

[Kieran]

Guys, why do you think it wont work to build a hybred? Is the exhaust housing way too small or what?

It's just they seem teeny-tiny!! Not sure what you could do to them. Some Jap owners have had the turbine wheels clipped, not sure if this helps much. The only other tweak I've seen are on Nick's dead'uns, which had the inlet nozzles bored out a bit.... Again, not sure if this helps things much?

[Kenneth]

Some Jap owners have had the turbine wheels clipped, not sure if this helps much.

Apparently it does... IIRC, clipping the turbines means that there is less exaust restriction at high RPM and therfore the engine flows better. As we all know flow is what determines power.
Another benefit is that your turbo hopefully runs more efficiently at higher RPM as it is not trying to go quite so fast. Again the result is better flow.

[zentac]

Ben, I sent a pair off to Rob who makes the 13T's for the GTO's, he took them to his turbo builder and he could do nothing with them.

[SNWMAD]

So to change turbos the easier way i would:

-Get some tdo4 dump pipes
-relocate oil filter
-get GTO fans
-push firewall
-customise the pipes to and form the turbo's

Do i have to get a custom manifold or can i modify the orginal?

[valmes]

Hello mate i'm in surrey. I'll pm you the address.

Guys, why do you think it wont work to build a hybred? Is the exhaust housing way too small or what?

Cheers,

Ben.

They are WAY TO SMALL! The best TD03 Hybrid is TD04...

[valmes]

So to change turbos the easier way i would:

-Get some tdo4 dump pipes
-relocate oil filter
-get GTO fans
-push firewall
-customise the pipes to and form the turbo's

Do i have to get a custom manifold or can i modify the orginal?

No you don't really have to get custom manifold and you can modify the exhaust inlet of THE SUBARU TURBO, so it bolts right on to your stock manifolds.

+modify front engine mount
+modify turbos (you have to disassemble them and rotate compressor housing, cartridge and exhaust housing so that they fit right)
+also have to modify actuators
+oil and coolant lines can be changed or modified to make them fit

If I forgot to mention - before that you got to make changes to your fueling - fuel pump+rewire+AFPR, Upgraded Injectors and some minor modifications to your fuel rail to make them fit.

Upgraded clutch, exhaust+dowpipes, intercooler...

... and in order for all your mods to work as supposed, you have to have some sort of engine management system and datalogging. Wideband is a must! Knock detection... some sort of boost control will also help.

Better brakes (at list disks) and suspension wouldn't hurt either. To release all the heat from under the bonnet - you will need aftermarket bonnet itself and some thermo wrapping material (or heat coating of some parts).

[valmes]

Ok here is a shorter list... kinda... at least it is more structured!

Disclaimer - it might not work for you - be sure you have a sound engine first. Faulty MAF, bad oil pump or bad plugs or even one incorrectly working injector can also ruin your engine... so be careful.

Stage 1 (install in order of appearance... except for boost gauge - you should have it in first)

Full 76 мм Exhaust+decat
Good Panel filter and good injectors gapped at 0,8mm (I use NGK platinum, some people preffer Iridium Greddy or HKS)
Fuel pump+rewire+AFPR( I will explain later why you would need this combo)
Apexi-S-AFC
Upgraded Blow-Off valve (we have a leaky plastic by pass valve)
MBC+Boost gauge (not bleeder type, but ball and spring type)

Now that's about it... for stage 1. Here are few step for getting 300-320HP out of you engine.

Now you have to set your base fuel pressure higher (from 44,5 psi to about 55 psi) that will up your injectors from standard 390cc to about 438,5 cc that's roughly 12,5% increase in injector size.

With your S-AFC correct your injectors size by subtracting -12,5% across the table (remember right now your are making corrections to your AirFlow output - MAF) and -20% from about 4000 to 7400 rpm at high throttle opening. It will indirectly alter your timing (advancing timing since now it reads from lower cells of the timing vs Hz map in ECU), but that is not a problem, on the contrary it will yield you more HPs.
S-AFC can see knock... but its kinda weird, so if you see it raise dramatically - back off. You can also watch Hz values with this thing. Better double check if everything works correct with wideband (borrow it if you don't want to buy it). You should start very rich at like 9,4:1 AFR and lean it out until you see no further improvements or you see excessive knock. Starting at 11,5 AFR at 4000 rpm at WOT and going to 10,6:1 AFR at 7400 is rather safe if not too rich.

Right now you should FEEL improvement even at stock boost, but go ahead and install your ball and spring MBC set at 0,6 bar. Better disconnect your stock boost solenoid at this time. This MBC type will give you instant turbo pick up (since it doesn’t let pressure to reach actuators until you already have 0,6 bar!!! Believe me you will see the difference) Now you can slowly turn up the boost... I think 0,8 is a safe level with good power (quoted earlier) 0,9-1,1 bar will require some further mods... in order to get you the desired results. You shouldn't be hitting fuel cut since your Hz values are now somewhat lower... you will have leaner AFR and some additional timing advance... Your car should feel much stronger.

Stage 2

Intercooler and piping
Upgraded Clutch
Downpipes
Intake pipes
Crank vent or better Oil catch tank (its is routed back into intake in stock form... and you don't want ANY oil in your intercooler or piping, even a small amount is a bad thing. With this mod if you've got oil - your turbos are crying for help)
Clipped turbine wheels
Stronger Actuator springs
More boost (0,9-1,1 range)
Don't underestimate the power of an aftermarket bonnet it will help you maintain reasonable tempretures under the hood

At this point you should watch your IDCs (Injector Duty Cycle) closely, they should not exceed 80% at any time. Same here - watch knock and AFRs, turn up the boost and get it right.

Stage 3

Sell your S-AFC and get an e-manage Ultimate (by that time hopefully they will enable knock monitor...)
***** Btw here you have plenty of choices - you can get full stand alone ECU or good piggy back. Important thing to decide up front. MAP ECU and E-manage Ultimate let you run "speed density"(MAP) using your stock sensors and ECU. Link ECU, AEM, Motec, Haltech, Wolf etc are full replacement units.
You might also want to get something like an AVC-R at this stage (although, most people get some kind of EBC early on... MBC can do fine). Many standalone users prefer to run EBC along side their built in ability to control boost. Just a note... If you convert from MAF to MAP you will have less restriction on the Intake side, but how to do that is another story...
Now you can upgrade your twin turbos to something like TD04L-13T or EVOIII(Subaru on stock manifolds... anything you like on custom made ones) or go Single turbo.
Turbo oil and coolant lines
Turbo piping (from turbos to intercooler and from intercooler to throttle body, you should have "to turbos" piping by now)
Oil movement kit and oil cooler is a good thing to have
Upgraded injectors (at least 450cc, better yet 560 cc from EVO 8, they will require resistor pack from GTO... also SARD 530 will fit with minor fuel rail mods - they are longer than stock)

Now you can really try some good boost from 1,1 to 1,5 ... at least that's what I am planning to do, so don't ask me for Stage 4 tips I am not there yet, but I know what could follow - forgies, cams, porting, even bigger turbos with external wastegates and bigger injectors, probably second fuel pump, ignition upgrade... and getting all this stuff to work.

Wow, did I just write all this? I guess I better stop...