Mayday!! Brake trouble!!

[Kieran]

I would appreciate any suggestions as unless I get it sorted by the weekend we haven't got any means of getting to JAE!!

Long story short.

Changed the pads, discs and brake fluid on the Golf today. Discs both shot, pads very unevenly worn, heavily glazed and no good to anyone.

Pads and discs went in okay. Caliper pistons not stuck.

Used an Easy-bleed to bleed the brakes. All seemed well. Flushed through the lines with fresh DOT4. The old fluid was well manky, looked like old engine oil. Looked like it was either very old or had been boiled?

The nearside front Caliper couldn't be bled with the easy bleed - had to go and get Alex and do a 2-man bleed. Followed usual guidelines - cracked the bleed nut just after pedal pressure was applied, closed again before reaching bottom of pedal. No air out the back two bleed screws, a little out the offside front and loads out the nearside. All went okay.

Except.... Now there's no brakes - VERY spongy pedal and very little braking effort. You press the pedal and you feel some, but not a lot of resistance.

When I got back, looked around and both discs were red hot. the metal of the disc face had taken on that blue tinge that metal does when it's been exposed to a lot of heat. Also, there was smoke coming off the nearside caliper.

So..... What's the crack? I would say air in the system, but I'm sure we got it all? I will try again, but if that doesn't work??

Suggestions? If re-bleeding doesn't work, then I think It'll be a visit to a garage!

[Paul Beazer]

Please dont take offence if you've already done the following!

Did you make sure the reservoir was topped up AT ALL TIMES? No air was drawn in through the fluid reservoir?

I always thought the best way to bleed brakes was start from the RN/S then RO/S the FN/S then FO/S, thus you do the longest pipe first etc.

From the fact you say the pedal feels VERY spongy, defo sounds like air in the system. Check for any fluid leaks underneath incase the pipe or flexible hose has a leak, are the brake pistons clean and dry? Make sure the bleed nipples are tight with no leakage. Try re-bleeding the brakes again.

Other than that, no ideas. Normally the brakes will feel spongy until the pads "cook", but sounds like you've done that!

Good luck mate!

EDIT. Try using the two person method, rather than the easy bleed.

[Kieran]

No offence taken! Yeah - the eazi bleed negates the need to top-up, it draws air through as you go. However, it might be the problem.... It could have sucked in some air from the pressurised reservioir when I stopped to top that up (which involves releasing pressure from the system).

Tomorrow, we'll manually bleed them again, and see what happens...

And I'm in a right old mood now, so I'm going to follow in the footsteps of Derek and go to the pub!

[Paul Beazer]

Good luck, im going to drive my car now!!

[colVR4]

Doesn't make sense that there is air in the system to me. If that were the case you wouldn't get enough pressure to 'cook' the brakes.

It sounds to me like your calipers stuck for some reason. If they were stuck, you wouldn't be able to brake any harder which could feel like you had no braking.

I am assuming that you gave everything a good clean with brake dust cleaner before you put the pads in, so something else must be making your calipers stick...??? Could too much fluid in the resevoir cause it? Is there anything that could catch on the calipers to make them stick?

[Kieran]

Doesn't make sense that there is air in the system to me. If that were the case you wouldn't get enough pressure to 'cook' the brakes.

It sounds to me like your calipers stuck for some reason. If they were stuck, you wouldn't be able to brake any harder which could feel like you had no braking.

I am assuming that you gave everything a good clean with brake dust cleaner before you put the pads in, so something else must be making your calipers stick...??? Could too much fluid in the resevoir cause it? Is there anything that could catch on the calipers to make them stick?

Checked fluid level and all is okay - It could be a sticky caliper but they did feel okay - not 'sticky'.

I was wondering if bleeding the system (and all the inherent pedal pumping) has busted something in the master cylinder.....

[Nutter_John]

Hi Kieran

I was speaking to a guy in garage a while ago about the easy bleed kit and he was saying that you have to be very careful with the as the pressure can cause the diaphram in the brake cylinder to rupture . He did say that they should never be used on certain cars , but unfortunately I can not remember which cars

What pressure was the tyre at that you used for the kit , think the maxi should be some thing like 15 psi

just my two pence worth - good luck with it anyway

cheers John

[Kieran]

Hmmm.... That's not good! There is a maximum pressure of 20psi specified on the reservoir - so yes, I did adjust the tyre to that to get going.

Guess we'll see tonight! At least parts for Golfs are cheap! I just luuurve British Rail.....

[ANTHONY]

so wheres the leggy aint you taking that at the weekend?

[Spirit]

I was wondering if bleeding the system (and all the inherent pedal pumping) has busted something in the master cylinder.....

Seems a logical explanation. With your technical knowledge I doubt it's anything you haven't already checked and double checked.

[Big Ian]

also sound's like worn seal's in the master cylinder?

[Kieran]

Well, did the 2-man bleeding tonight, and stumbled across the problem.

Right, well the discs weren't binding or owt like that, and the fronts bled nicely - a tiny bit of air came out, but only 2 or 3 bubbles max. However the bleed screw on the nearside rear has failed - It finally gave up and sheared inside the brake drum when I went to have another go at it this evening. I noticed that there was a bit of weeping fluid coming from it, then when I opened the screw, I felt the screw 'give'. Now you can twirl the screw round and round, but you can't shut off the fluid flow.

Ah well, can't get too fussed - at least I know what the cause is - picked a bloody GREAT time to go however!!s Another event scuppered by my ever-misbehaving fleet!

[psbarham]

oh **** mate , thats not good , just a thought is it the nipple ( tee hee) thats stripped or the caliper its self ? if its just the nipple then you might find one off the rest of the fleet will fit , if not that motor factor we went to will have one

[SGHOM]

the speed you drive Kieran.....you'll only need the handbrake anyway ??

[Kieran]

So.... One fecking wasted weekend. I would say I'm spitting flames, but that would be an understatement!!

Changed both rear brake cylinders.... And like a complete fumbo, I over tightened the bleed nipple on one of the rear brakes!! Result?? Same fecking problem!!

That's it! I've had enough! I'm resorting to booking into the local garage!!

I man, I am REALLY, REALLY fecking peeed off! The air in Mansfield has been blue!!

In other news, Ariadne's brake calipers have returned. And they look like new! A silver lining on what has otherwise been a VERY cloudy weekend!!


(last time I buy a stupid german car, frasser, rasser, mutter, grumble....)

[The Vee]

K, are you sure it's not the spanner slipping on the nipple IE rounded off the edges of the screw, rather than stripped thread, as I've normally found the nipple to break off before the thread gives way.

[Kieran]

K, are you sure it's not the spanner slipping on the nipple IE rounded off the edges of the screw, rather than stripped thread, as I've normally found the nipple to break off before the thread gives way.

I'm sure - today's job was renewing the cylinders and bleed nipples. It's partly me using too much force and partly poor design. The cylinder is machined from a block of aluminium, and uses a anodised steel bleed nipple - so if you over-tighten the nipple, it just digs into the soft ally threads and strips them out.....

However, I will back one of them out just to confirm that....

[Paul Beazer]

[Kieran]

More like

[KiwiTT]

It is has been a very long while since I have ever been drunk (years maybe). Should I try this home-service/repair business, to find out what I have been missing.

My previous experience with excessive beer.

Takes the edge off
Starting to feel happy
Hmmm ... I feel good
I feel really good
Things starting spining
Oops ... I have lost count. Where am I ?!?!?!