A note of caution regarding Bilstein's B12 Kit

[Kieran]

This is another long post, however I strongly recommend that any VR-4 owner wishing to change their suspension reads it very carefuly and considers my findings.

It's taken me many, many hours of research to pin down my suspension system, and I have finally placed an order.

I will be using Tein Springs, and Bilstein B8 Shock absorbers. I have chosen B8s over B6s based on the recommendations of Bilstein themselves - Their FAQ recommends the following. I quote:

23. By how much can I lower the body with the B6 Sports ( not the shortened version) using shorter springs?

By up to 20 mm. That's the typical body height drop offered for new cars ex factory. A shock absorber with shortened stroke is required when lowering by more than 20 mm. In this case, pre-tensioning of the spring which keeps the body away from the wheel under all driving conditions is maintained. Otherwise, the danger exists of the spring slipping out of the holder causing the car to suddenly becomes uncontrollable.

As the Tein Springs lower by 25mm at the front and 28mm at the back, I have followed their advice, though I must admit the big descision behind choosing the B8s was when I read the information in the link below and realised that the damping rates of the B6 and B8 are identical - the difference is just the stroke of the shock absorber.

Link: http://www2.bilstein.de/en/produkte/...vergleich.php3


This works out a little more expensive than the Bilstein B12 kit. So why have I not chosen that? After all, the B12 kit is nothing more than a Set of B8 shocks with a set of "matched" springs. And the B12 kit claims a moderate -30mm lowering. However, the VR-4s with B12 kits all seem to me to be somewhat lower than -30mm.... Indeed Tig202 posted asking if anyone else thought the car sat a bit low.

So I did some digging, and this is what I found. When you look up the B12 Kit for the Galant on Bilstein's web catalogue (part number SE5-8841), not only can you view the applications, but you can also download the German TUV certificate for the springs provided in the kit.... And this is where I made an important discovery.... have a look at this link:

http://www.dvsegmbh.de/PDF/einbau/32...M4-Y099A00.PDF

The important bit is that the Springs are H&R units, and the part number is 29519.

29519 is the same kit as I fitted to Hordak (my old Galant V6). The springs are only TUV approved for the EA0 (2WD) models, upto 120KW engine power.

You can see the full TUV certificate for the springs here - page 3 shows the most relevant information:

http://www.h-r.com/bin/29519.pdf

The springs are specified with a maximum load rating of 1005kg front, 855kg rear - so I don't think they are likely to snap. What this does explain is why the B12 equipped cars seem to sit lower than you would expect from a -30mm kit.

I leave you to make up your own minds.

[ritch_w]

good investigative skills!!

Kieran PI

[SGHOM]

So you've chosen the right suspension then ??

Are you sure it's up to spending 12 months out of every year parked on you're drive !!

[Rikki]

hmmm.... good findings!

If the B6 are not made for springs dropped more than 20mm, what about the B4?
*commences worry!*
I have the B4 with -40mm springs on

[Kieran]

So you've chosen the right suspension then ??

Are you sure it's up to spending 12 months out of every year parked on you're drive !!

[Kieran]

hmmm.... good findings!

If the B6 are not made for springs dropped more than 20mm, what about the B4?
*commences worry!*
I have the B4 with -40mm springs on

I had B4s on Hordak - I didn't know about all this at the time. It didn't seem to harm anything. I think the shortened shock thing is more to help prevent the springs 'jumping' - you'd have to be airbourne for that to happen in our cars I think!! I suppose a pre-loaded damper *could* have a shorter service life, but we'd still be talking tens of thousands of miles, and seeing as the Bilstein stuff is designed to outlast the OE stuff anyway.....


I wouldn't loose sleep over it.

[KiwiTT]

I think my "Ralliart" Suspension is -40mm.

[Kalle]

So you went for the B8 sprint

partno
front: BE5-6746
rear: BE3-6747

Is it the correct part no?

[Kieran]

So you went for the B8 sprint

partno
front: BE5-6746
rear: BE3-6747

Is it the correct part no?

Yes, that is what I have ordered.

[NevGroom]

Kieran

Excellent article - Where can I get the springs? What are the part nos?

Cheers

[orionn2o]

very useful post. Will refer back to hear when i have more funds!

Just as a point, where did you order this stuff from?? And do you have part numbers for the springs?

[Kieran]

Thanks guys.

The Bilsteins I ordered from www.motorsportworld.co.uk

The Teins are from Camskills. (www.camskill.co.uk). The problem is that the S.Techs are not shown as being compatible with the saloons... see here - have a look at the last posting in the thread:

http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18061

[WildCards]

Are those prices per pair Kieran? or each? I'm assuming each at those prices.

[pezza]

Are those prices per pair Kieran? or each? I'm assuming each at those prices.

Yeh they are prices shown for each individual shock.... there's a note in very small print at the top of the listing...

SO 20mm drop on the front would equate to what I wonder.. I think rears are low enough (plus they catch with standard setup as it is on 235 tyres) but would it be a bad idea just to lower front?

[WildCards]

Yeh they are prices shown for each individual shock.... there's a note in very small print at the top of the listing...

Cheers Pezza, my eyes aren't what they used to be.

SO 20mm drop on the front would equate to what I wonder.. I think rears are low enough (plus they catch with standard setup as it is on 235 tyres) but would it be a bad idea just to lower front?

I have the same problem on 235's, I don't see the problem with lowering the front only as it's only a small drop. What's the general concensus on this?

[pezza]

Yeh hope I could somehow stiffen rear but not drop it any more. Maybe the replacement bilstein shocks will be enough?

Hmm I did think about puttin the stoppers or spring inserts in.

Kieran do you have any idea how long delivery is on those shocks?

Cheers

[Kieran]

Well, motorsport world order via Eurocarparts.... And that could mean a 4-6 week lead time.....

[Rikki]

Well, motorsport world order via Eurocarparts.... And that could mean a 4-6 week lead time.....

have you tried EuroCarParts directly? I used them and got mine very quickly.

[n13l pm]

I got a B12 kit from www.speedbox.co.uk cheapest i could find at the time, free delivery and they got it from germany direct to my door in 4 working days!

Eurocarparts took the piss.. they quoted £70 more and plus postage!

Great service from speedbox.co.uk

[Rikki]

I got a B12 kit from www.speedbox.co.uk cheapest i could find at the time, free delivery and they got it from germany direct to my door in 4 working days!

Eurocarparts took the piss.. they quoted £70 more and plus postage!

Great service from speedbox.co.uk

hmm... thats strange to be fair. Bilstein directed me to ECP and MSW gets there's from ECP. Wouldnt have thought the cost would vary that much!

EDIT:// Just ran a check from both and both seem to have identical prices, even to the nearest penny! (speedbox and MSW) £460.01