EOI: Brembos on a Prefacelift bolt on kit

[peter thomson]

As far as I remember this was dropped as there is not enough material between the holes for the brackets to be strong enough

[Fred]

i'd be interested mate... Dependant on price e.t.c

[VR-04-TT]

Hey guys, I keep forgetting to check this site! Sorry

I'm taking my car down to the workshop where we'll actually be altering the knuckle itself to accomodate the brembo 160mm spacing. The bracket idea can't be done as there is an overlap between the two sets of bolt holes.

The way it's being done may cause some people to go "hrmmm" with worry...but the guy who's doing this for me builds rally cars for a living and has used this technique a multitude of times on a number of cars all with success. When you consider the stresses they go through, a street car has no issues at all.

Anyway, what he's doing is lopping off the "ears" that the stock brakes bolt to, then he has made up a bracket that will be welded onto the hub to give us the 160mm spacing that we need. Yes, people will cringe, but I know he does it right and does it well. I've seen and been in cars he's done this to (mainly older HH VR4's).

It's the only way it can be done without replacing the stock knuckle with a facelift. At least this way there will be no ABS sensor issues.

He has said that he could do more but on an exchange basis. But it could be very expensive...I won't know for sure until he's done mine.

I'm heading down on the 25th of this month, so I'll keep you all posted. I'll take lots of photos!

[phosty]

As far as I remember this was dropped as there is not enough material between the holes for the brackets to be strong enough

Hmnn. So how come companies like KAD still offer big brake upgrades for the Pre-facelift VR4s? I was speaking to them about the hole spacing for the bracket they use a few months ago so they still offer them.

[peter thomson]

I think most are hoping for a cheaper alternative to buying facelift hubs or the cost of KADS. KADS are way beyond my budget anyway

[Nick Mann]

Hmnn. So how come companies like KAD still offer big brake upgrades for the Pre-facelift VR4s? I was speaking to them about the hole spacing for the bracket they use a few months ago so they still offer them.

I'm pretty sure that KADS have a bracket from the caliper to the hub carrier that can be changed. Thus there is no need for an extra braket to adapt hole spacing, you can just use a bracket from the caliper. It makes sense, because you only need one caliper design for any application. I could be wrong though!

[Nutter_John]

Nope the AP's are the same it is a bracket onto the hub that then the calipers bolt to - so Mr Mann is correct

[VR-04-TT]

The KAD brake calipers mount from the top, or radial mounted. That's why it's easy to make a bracket to adapt them onto the pre-facelift hubs. But the brembos bolt in from the side like our stock ones, that's why there's the overlap and that's why KAD brake kits are easily available.

http://www.kad-uk.com/kad-caliper-g.htm You can see the mounting points on the caliper there. Or http://www.kad-uk.com/media/G_info.pdf will give you more info.

If you get a caliper that mounts from the top, getting a bracket made up will be childs' play.

[KHK]

looking forward to your lots of photos at the end of this month for the modification,

very interested to see how it goes

i have custom brackets but i am not happy with the craftsmanship

see if u can source something nice and cheap

[phosty]

The KAD brake calipers mount from the top, or radial mounted

I wasn't aware of the specifics of either KAD or AP's brakes but surely the detail of the bracket wouldn't change the forces acting upon the caliper mounting holes on the Knuckle (hub carrier)?

Or was the concern about the strength of the mounting bracket rather than the knuckle mounting holes?

[Kenneth]

I wasn't aware of the specifics of either KAD or AP's brakes but surely the detail of the bracket wouldn't change the forces acting upon the caliper mounting holes on the Knuckle (hub carrier)?

Or was the concern about the strength of the mounting bracket rather than the knuckle mounting holes?

The point being made is that for KAD and AP's the bracket is actually not part of the caliper, instead the bracket is separate and can be easily and fairly cheaply made to your requirements. Caliper bolts to bracket, bracket bolts to hub carrier. The caliper is generic, the bracket is specific.

[phosty]

I got that - So it's the bracket that's not strong enough for the would be pre-facelift brembo adaptors as they bolt in from the side.

When I read the post by Peter I thought the problem was with the knuckle mounting points. My mistake.

[Kenneth]

When I read the post by Peter I thought the problem was with the knuckle mounting points. My mistake.

That is correct, the knuckle mounting points are in the incorrect position to mount Brembo calipers. The problem is because the brembos do not have a separate bracket and you have to be able to bolt the calipers to something.

In some cars you could make an adaptor that bolts to the hub carrier, then the caliper bolts to the adapter. This isn't the case with the pre-facelift hub carrier though, as there isn't enough room between where the current bolts are and the brembo bolts would be, they would interfere.

If the brembos (like AP and KAD) were radial mounted, this wouldn't be the case as you could just get a bracket made up.

[KiwiTT]

Hmmmm ... I was thinking I should get the AP racing brakes as opposed to Brembos. AP 6 pot front and 4 pot rear. I think Barry did that for his pre-facelift.

Need to price them up somewhere.

[Kenneth]

Hmmmm ... I was think I should get the AP racing brakes as opposed to brembos. AP 6 pot front and 4 pot rear.

Need to price them up somewhere.

Much much much more expensive, but if you have the money then go for it. You may also want to look at http://www.endless-sport.co.nz/

If you want to chat about it all, I am always keen

(back on topic now)

[bradc]

for you Richard it would be easiest to get the hub carriers and get Brembo's. And even if you got hub carriers and went with AP's or something, at least you could ask for EVO fitment calipers, discs, pads rather than some random setup.

[VR-04-TT]

For simplicity's sake, a radial mounted setup would be far, far easier to install. But more expensive new, I have no idea what they go for second hand (AP's I mean).

If you could find a set of AP's second hand you may have a better alternative to Brembos. It'd be easy to get an adaptor made for them.

KHK, I'll keep you updated I'll also be getting split dump/front pipes made up too if we have enough time.

[phosty]

Now I fully understand. Thanks Kenneth.

Out of interest but slightly off topic, do Endless do a VR4 specific set (for pre-facelift)? Pricewise they seem similar to AP/KAD (i.e. £1700ish for RX7 units).

[MPBVr4]

AP's, KAD's and Tarox all have brackets. I've seen AP's and Tarox on eBay but not sure which caliper size would suit the VR4. Tarox one's go quite cheaply. Just need a bracket machined.

[Turbo_Steve]

Guys, does anyone know if the prefacelift fitment is the same as the Early Evos?

I keep meaning to look into this, as they look extremely similar through the wheels.