Installing an amp info...

[Turbo_Steve]

Just to clarify, my reasoning behind the 0awg is that if you're going to run silly expensive cable, it might as well be big enough for anything, including any curent spikes. How are you guys measuring that you don't need Caps / bigger cables?
Inline ammeter? Voltmeter?

On the more mental systems (especially running into low impedances) I would find cable warmth an issue, running seriously high output the cables would gradually degrade, the voltages would start to creep.

[HMG1K]

Excuse the stupid question - but can you 'kill' a system by installing a higher grade than you need power and ground cable...?

For example using an 0AWG or 4AWG when an 8AWG would be sufficient...?

[CANDEE]

Just to clarify, my reasoning behind the 0awg is that if you're going to run silly expensive cable, it might as well be big enough for anything, including any curent spikes. How are you guys measuring that you don't need Caps / bigger cables?
Inline ammeter? Voltmeter?

On the more mental systems (especially running into low impedances) I would find cable warmth an issue, running seriously high output the cables would gradually degrade, the voltages would start to creep.

I have a few mates running 145+dB SPL systems and they run a run of 0g from the battery to the amp - though they quite often run the ground back to the battery well. When they are running caps they quite often have power delivery issues(ie they dont get enough power). But without caps and a decent battery/ground system they are fine....

[CANDEE]

Excuse the stupid question - but can you 'kill' a system by installing a higher grade than you need power and ground cable...?

For example using an 0AWG or 4AWG when an 8AWG would be sufficient...?

I dont see any problem with that as long as you have the wire fused appropriatly(spelling).

[Fully]

Capacitors are designed to hold large amounts of boost power for the amps, when It's required, for the big bass boost. If there is a power delivery problem, there capacitors are not working correctly, or are not running at full. Most common fault with caps is people don't charge them correctly.

The difference between a capacitor and a battery is that a capacitor can dump its entire charge in a tiny fraction of a second, where a battery would take minutes to completely discharge.

Another issues with not charging correctly, is the cable(s) is too far away from the power source, under 500mm is recommended.

I'll stop there now, as I can talk about this for hours

[Roberto]

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What he said.......

[CANDEE]

Capacitors are designed to hold large amounts of boost power for the amps, when It's required, for the big bass boost. If there is a power delivery problem, there capacitors are not working correctly, or are not running at full. Most common fault with caps is people don't charge them correctly.

The difference between a capacitor and a battery is that a capacitor can dump its entire charge in a tiny fraction of a second, where a battery would take minutes to completely discharge.

Another issues with not charging correctly, is the cable(s) is too far away from the power source, under 500mm is recommended.

I'll stop there now, as I can talk about this for hours

Dont worry dude... I'll stop here too as I can direct people to many threads on NZICEMAG(and national record holding setups) which prove you can get a good set up without a cap

[Roberto]

There is no doubt you can run a real good system without any Caps.
But for me it always helps, if you are not running a Pro system and require a little help in the bass department.

Each to thier own, as long as your happy with the sound, that is all that matters.

[n13l pm]

Iv been looking around on talkaudio forum for years now and their idea is simple, dont have caps, just have enough battery power. And in most cases this means getting a second battery in the boot.

[Turbo_Steve]

Not going to comment on the "cap or not to cap" debate.
I think they're a "fix" item, if you have a problem getting power delivery to the boot, or your amps are running into such low impedance that their powersupply stages need additional capacity. But if that's the case, my personal preference is to modify the amplifiers themselves, as we're usually talking higher voltages and less current, so easier all round.


And don't forget that your average 1Farad cap has a fairly limited life: unlike the proper electronics grade stuff you get in TVs and Mobos, your avaerage car cap tends to show a significant decrease in capacity over a year if discharging regularly. I'm not convinced they're a good investment. Neccesary sometimes, I suppose.

[HMG1K]

Have you folks got any suggestions as to where to position an amp...?

I thought of under the driver or passenger seat - but then there's no where to bolt it down to without drilling (which I dont want to do). I've tried industrial strength velcro (which does the trick), but the teeth of the velcro won't grip the carpet. It will cling to the boot sidewall - but the amp is too heavy.

Thanks for your feedback in advance.

[Zaid]

I have got my amp mounted on the sub box.

[Turbo_Steve]

Mount it anywhere there's space, really, but ensure it has airflow!
This either means having plenty of space around it, or having an inch above & either side connected to a larger space (e.g. cabin / bootspace).
I've often mounted them behind trim panels that vent to the outside at the rear. That seems to work reasonably well.
I've also mounted them under the rear seat, and watercooled them to a little radiator at the front of the car!

I am looking at mounting one in the wheel well, (with the spare wheel still in it!) which will mean I will probably put a intake and exhaust fans into the cavity to ensure it doesn't overheat.

[HMG1K]

How do you mount it / stick it to the floor...?

[Roberto]

What I have done is the sub is mounted on the left side of the load area and the amps on the other side. But mine is a Legnum.

No matter what you do make sure it is secure.
Normally you will have to Drill and screw, the last thing you want is to put in some nice Bass and then have it rattle the amp or subbox.

On that matter you may want to check the tightness of your rear view mirror, otherwise your world behind you will be nothing but a blur.......

[Turbo_Steve]

LOL Yes! Had the mirror fall off in my metro (don't ask) when I bassed that up (don't ask - I was young).
Having done the whole "MDF" thing for subwoofers, my advice is to make an enclosure out of glass fibre with some internal bracing and an MDF front thickened up with glass fibre. Dynamat (or equivalent) the back of the box inside and out. Make sure it's ported if you want a decent bass response (use some speakerbox software) and then you should be able to fit it inside the side wing and fit the factory trim back around it if it's a legnum. This sounds like what Roberto has done. If it's a Galant, you might have to trim it yourself...not seen inside the boot of one. IF you do this, you can use doublesided foam sticky pads (the seriously hefty ones that manufacturers use) to hold the box in place. However, removing it can (and often does) break the box, so make sure you're not going to restrict access to anything.

The same goes for amps: you should really screw them down. However there are certain parts of the car you shouldn't drill. And I get nervous wielding a drill too near the fuel tank
If you have a convenient flat surface, again, you can use the double sided tape.
It's less than ideal however, and again can cause damage at removal time.

Self tappers into the boot floor can be used, but ensure you're not drilling into anything structural, and that you rustproof anything that will be exposed to the outside.
If you go through any bulkheads, panels or anything else with cables you MUST MUST MUST use grommets. Your power feed to your amplifier MUST be fused next to the battery. Failure to fuse it next to the battery is a fire risk.
It always worries me when you see people relocate their battery to the boot with a massive long cable run with no battery-side fuse. Any damage to that cable will then be very very bad.

[Fully]

Dont worry dude... I'll stop here too as I can direct people to many threads on NZICEMAG(and national record holding setups) which prove you can get a good set up without a cap

I wasn't arguing the point of having them or not.

I have a back ground in arcade video games, manly hardware design and fabrication. I also did a lot of work in the Thompson simulators in the late 80's and 90's.
There is a lot of difference between reading about stuff and designing stuff

PS: Zaid, You shouldent mount your amp on the back of your sub box, you will damage your amp.

[CANDEE]

I wasn't arguing the point of having them or not.

I have a back ground in arcade video games, manly hardware design and fabrication. I also did a lot of work in the Thompson simulators in the late 80's and 90's.
There is a lot of difference between reading about stuff and designing stuff

PS: Zaid, You shouldent mount your amp on the back of your sub box, you will damage your amp.

All good dude

I agree with the amp not on the back of the sub-box as the vibrations can break the board in the amp....

[Fully]

I was just looking at those Warhorse Kicker amps, OMG 10,000 RMS pure watts, or 20,000 bridged.
At about 5g holly molly, then you would need 2 racing alternators and about 10 batteries just to run it

Opps! I just creamed myself

[CANDEE]

I was just looking at those Warhorse Kicker amps, OMG 10,000 RMS pure watts, or 20,000 bridged.
At about 5g holly molly, then you would need 2 racing alternators and about 10 batteries just to run it

Opps! I just creamed myself

LOL they seem a bit over the top with their power draw...

But the power is not too bad.... only 2 watts per $