MAP ECU - Group Buy number 2!

[Gowf]

i'm a little confussed now as to whether or not it has to be tuned or if it comes out with a base map, so it makes it a plug and play. can someone clear this up for me please, as to me it looks like it will come with a base map and post out to everyone for self install?

There are 2 ways of doing it. The MAP2 does have a seft learn option, so you continue to drive normaly while it takes readings and produces your base map for you. Great in theory, but it only visits each cell once. i.e once its got a value it ignores that cell unless you tell it otherwise. So you can get a map, but it will be ropey, but should get you started.

Now there are basemaps around but, and i do stress this point, these maps are what people have taken time, quite a lot of time in some cases, to produce. This is why some tuners will not supply you with a base map because at the end of the day its there work that they have created.

Most importantly though, if you were supplied with a base map that is what it would be, mearly a starting point for further tuning as no 2 cars are the same. So if lets say you were given a map and then just ragged the arse out your car and bad things happend you would imediately be on the phone complaining that this map destroyed your car.

So yeah, there are maps out there that people have and may be willing to give you, but you will definately need to map the car afterwards. So it all depends on how confident you are with doing it yourself, or whether you just want to pay someone and have it done for you.

Just something else i forgot, with the install its vitaly important to have the correct power and earth feeds for the MAP2, they are quite sensitive and it has been known for people on self install to cook them

[orionn2o]

Do Eurospec sell the harness? And how much extra would that be? Could we get that tied in on the group buy cos I imagine most people would want one?

[Paul C]

If they dont you can get them from america, last time i looked £105 + customs

[spm01]

if they need tuning then, can we organise a day out at Eurospec to have them mapped also?
i would prefer to have it mapped the day of installation personally.

[Paul C]

If i lived near eurospec that what i would do. I have been self mapping mine for about a year and dont feel that i am ever satisfied.I keep saying i will get them to fine tune mine but never get round to it.

[Nutter_John]

if they need tuning then, can we organise a day out at Eurospec to have them mapped also?
i would prefer to have it mapped the day of installation personally.

it's not a 10 min job , normally takes about 5 days of various types of driving to get the map fine tuned

[Gowf]

it's not a 10 min job , normally takes about 5 days of various types of driving to get the map fine tuned

Definately John. For a start the rolling road would need to be booked and as you know, its not just a case of sitting there for 10mins and typing in some numbers. It does take hours.

To put things into perspective, i mapped a honda civic last weekend thats running a stanalone and throttle bodies. It took me 5 hours to get an acceptable idle, let alone the rest of the fuel and timing tables (and they run 2 for the different cams). This was done using a provided base map. So although a base map does help tremendously, these things do take time.

[Eurospec]

sorry not to chime in sooner, been manic in there today.

You really cant consider these thing plug and play. A map 2 has 2 boost tables, 2 timing tables and 2 fuel tables. The fuel and timing tables are minimum 380 zones each! To map them you really need to see which zones are relevant (eg some cars pull more vac on idle than others ) and where the main 'drivable portions' of the map will be, as well as all the once in a blue moon places that you will end up in the map when you miss a gear or something.

The harnesses are available from the US for round about the £100 mark, and that means you can avoid cutting the loom.

There are various base maps which you can down load and work from, but i would urge extreme caution in doing so. You really need to map individually every car. you certainly cannot load up a map and drive off and boost the car hard. There is every chance that doing that will lead to engine poppage. All a base map is good for is startng the car the first time. Every single car is different, it will have different amounts of wear, differnt intakes, exhausts etc, turbo characteristics etc.

To map one normally takes me about 5 to 7 days, but it can take longer, for instance if i have to do multiple rolling road sessions, then availability of the dyno becomes an issue etc.

When we map for customers we dont lock our maps as many places do. Essentially we believe you paid for the map, so you can take it, delete it, edit it or whatever you wish to do.

If there was interest what we might do is have like a fitting day where people can come down to us, fit their own units while we are all around there to ask, plus we could get the cars running on very basic maps if people are going to self tune etc. It would be chaos, but i bet it would be fun too!

Bear in mind that to tune one of these you will need a decent wideband and knock detection at least. Preferably also a logger (like evo scan) and if you are going to try and max it out, i would consider getting egt.

Hope that helps,

Cheers,

Ben.

[Kieran]

Ben - when you say knock detection is needed, do you mean beyond what can be pulled out of the standard knock sensor via Evoscan?

[Eurospec]

Ideally yes. In evo scan you can view stuff like the knock count etc as a figure, but a knock event will flash up so fast its hard to see it. of course you can pull up a log file after the run and see if it was knocking durung that run, but what you really want is something that tells you "GET YOUR FOOT OFF THE PEDAL NOW" if it really starts to take a beating.

Something like knock link or knock box is ideal for that, then you can look in evo scan to see what is real and what is not.

Example VR4's get a lot of valve train noise around 5500rpm, enough to start getting the frst light up on the knock link, but if you listen with det cans you get no pings, nor does the knock sum show it up.

Cheers,

Ben.

[phosty]

I had convinced myself wanted one a few months back....but then it was pointed out to me that the Emanage Ultimate gave you direct control over injectors too whereas the MAP2 doesn't. So now I'm undecided again.

But then I would need a separate boost controller if I went for the EMU.

Nothing seems to do everything!

[Eurospec]

Map 2 will drive additional injectors if you want to do it that way. It would be a lot of wiring though and a lot more work.

Cheers,

Ben.

[Nick Mann]

Bumpety-bump!

Ben - when will the MAP 2 also be able to support fuel cut on the VR4? I remember you said it is coming, but I can't remember the time scale...

[bernmc]

Ben, have you heard of any proper cars (ie Skylines ) running these? How does it compare to and Fcon V Pro? (Apart from being half the price!)

[Kieran]

Changed my mind.


I think i'll need the MAP-2.

[Nick Mann]

Changed my mind.


I think i'll need the MAP-2.

You know it makes sense!

[Eurospec]

Sorry didnt notice the replies on here till now.

I have now the latest firmware for testing. This has actice knock control, dual channel fuel cut, the logic changed on the launch control and a whole host of other features. Since i broke my leg testing has kind of taken a back seat, but if i have understood the documentation pack correctly, then the dual channel fuel cut defencer should work on the vr4.

Depending on how existing applications have been wired (ie what outputs used for what) all map 2 units can be upgraded to the latest firmware with no issues, but do check wiring before downloading and going for it!

Bern, yes it can be used on a skyline. I think gowf is gonna put one on his!. Certainly its been done before.

As to HKS F-Cons, well they can only be tuned by an HKS master dealer, and all of them lock their maps. That gives you zero playability. I am sure it is an excellent product, but all i have ever done with them is remove them from cars for people since there was no support available to use them.

Cheers,

Ben.

[Nick Mann]

Gowf is advertising his Liner?

Thanks for the info, Ben. I think we may have the 5th taker! Just waiting for confirmation.....

[orionn2o]

Im still sitting on the fence.. i'll make a decision by the end of march!!

[Nick Mann]

Cool! Hopefully by then, we'll be at ten units!