Auto box: sensitive to oil levels?

[CJay]

I recently undertook a full Amsoil flush and ATF change on the gearbox (+ ECU reset), I had absolutely no problems with gear changes previously but theres nothing like preventative maintanence!

Over the last couple of weeks, I noticed that the box would occasionally rev out in first gear from cold and jump into second. This didn't happen when warm.

On checking the ATF level (from hot), the level was about 5mm above the max 'hot' mark on the dipstick. Last night, I removed about a litre of ATF from the box to get things back in kilter.

This morning, the drive to work was pretty scary, gear changes from 1st to 3rd were very jumpy, in first when accelerating the revs would rise but it wouldn't change up to second for a few seconds, when it did change up, it did so with a jump. This was happening between 1st or 3rd gear all the way into work.

I checked the oil level this morning and its at the max 'cold' level on the dipstick when warm. Is the box very sensitive to oil levels? Should I be OK to drive the car home considering the erratic gearbox behavior?

CJ

[Nick Mann]

The box is sensitive to oil levels. And Amsoil gives better changing characteristics in every VR4 I have seen/known it put in.

I assume you are cycling through the gears with the box nice and warm and the car on flat ground when you are checking the level? I'm sure you are, but it's always worth asking. I'd spend some time being sure that the level is right. In my experience, slightly too much is okay, but slightly too little causes big problems with gear changes.

[CJay]

I assume you are cycling through the gears with the box nice and warm and the car on flat ground when you are checking the level? I'm sure you are, but it's always worth asking. I'd spend some time being sure that the level is right. In my experience, slightly too much is okay, but slightly too little causes big problems with gear changes.

Thanks Nick, If I'm honest, I'm not cycling through the gears prior to checking the level, I was under the impression that the level should be checked with the engine off. I'll get it warm on the way home, park it up, cycle through the gears and check the level and adjust accordingly. I just hope the jumpiness in gear changes isn't doing any damage to the torque convertor!

CJ

[Physician]

Hi CJ,

Whereas Nick is 100% correct in all he says, I personally think that your 'problem' is simply that you disconnected the battery to reset the ECU and your box is going through the 'fuzzy logic' learning curve again. It will settle down in a maybe 100 miles or so.

[CJay]

I personally think that your 'problem' is simply that you disconnected the battery to reset the ECU and your box is going through the 'fuzzy logic' learning curve again. It will settle down in a maybe 100 miles or so.

I hear what you're saying Physician, I've done about 300 miles since the change / flush - the fact that the box is behaving very erratically since I remove a litre of oil last night would make me think that theres too little oil in the box at present. I'll stick 750ml or so back in and see what happens.

At moment, I'm concerned about driving the car home with the box jumping and juddering all over the place

CJ

[Physician]

I hear what you're saying Physician, I've done about 300 miles since the change / flush - the fact that the box is behaving very erratically since I remove a litre of oil last night would make me think that theres too little oil in the box at present. I'll stick 750ml or so back in and see what happens.

At moment, I'm concerned about driving the car home with the box jumping and juddering all over the place

CJ

Aha! OK - I agree with you. I didn't realise you had done that mileage already since the change.

After adding oil - obviously see what happens but you might then consider another battery disconnect to reset again.

[Davezj]

cycling through the gears will drop the level of the oil at the dipstick.
if you have removed the oil without cycling through the gears then i recon your box is low on oil, you didn't just chuck the ATF you took out of the gear box did you? if so that was expensive.
also as i understand it you check the level of the oil with the engine running. correct me if i am wrong not sure if leaving it in park or nutral makes a difference. let me check my handbook.

EDIT:-
It doesn't say if the engine should remain running or not. BUT my Jeep specified the engine should be running when checking auto box oil level.

[CJay]

Got a lift home at lunch and picked up some ATF, I put the guts of a litre back into the box - fingers crossed later on! Thanks for your help guys....

CJ

[rees]

interesting , i mean mines a tad jumpy when cold ( ive just had a eurospec servive - box filled with amsoil)
and i also if im goin too slow in 5th its a bit lumpy when it gears down to 4th- but am sure that just because im not expecting it and it catches me off guard

[Nick VR4]

As above go through all gears stopping momentarily at each position
Move the selector back to "N"
Wipe the dipstick and recheck level

Hope this helps

[Beastlee]

Ok, I keep wanting to check mine and I always see this 'cycle through each gear' but this seems to relate to being stationary. My car will not do anything other than 1st and 2nd in tip mode which I know is for safe starts in icy/snowy conditions. Can anyone confirm the exact procedure or should I know this from the Member's section?

[Davezj]

cycle through the gears means,

pause after each gear change for 5ish seconds

Park
Reverse
neutral
Drive
Neutral
Reverse
Neutral
Drive
Neutral
Reverse
Park

leave the engine runnig and then check the level.

[Beastlee]

Thanks Dave. I suppose the confusion is that it isn't cycling through the gears as such.

[CJay]

I drove a 4-speed tiptronic FTO for about 6 years, most owners are of the opinion that the ATF should be hot and the engine switched off when checking the level.

I checked the levels again this evening after the drive home from work (no problems with the box during the drive):

Cycled through the box, left stick in park with engine running - fluid level was at the bottom of the 'cold' level.

Turned engine off, waited for a few minutes and checked again - fluid was slightly above the max 'hot' level.

Davezj, you positive that you need to check directly after cycling gears with the engine on?

CJ

[Kieran]

Check it in neutral with the engine running, not park. That's how the service manual instructs you to do it. The ATF flows a different route (a bypass valve opens) when in Park, so you'll get erratic readings.

Other than that, Dave is quite correct though. Cycle the gears, Return to 'N' and then check the level. Check it a couple of times though... That dipstick is a rubbish design and tends to scrape the tube walls as its inserted & removed - Again, this can lead to a misreading.

[CJay]

I went through the recommended approach and ended up putting another litre of oil into the box until the dipstick showed 'hot' i.e. I was running 2 litres short Its a bit scary when you think that theres got to be a load of people out there checking the level with the engine off.

Thanks for your help guys.

CJ

[Beastlee]

Ok, so the car jumped into limp home mode last night and again this morning. There are no signs of leaks anywhere but upon checking the level, when hot, it was halfway up the cold section.
After obtaining a litre of SP-III from Mitsubishi at £18 (Amsoil from Don is cheaper even after shipping!) I added half to the warm box. After leaving it to settle for 20 minutes I went back out and checked, it had reached the line between hot and cold. I've added almost all of the litre now and will check it when the rain stops.

Can anyone confirm if one litre of ATF would be right to bring it up from halfway into cold to the full hot mark?

[CJay]

Can anyone confirm if one litre of ATF would be right to bring it up from halfway into cold to the full hot mark?

I reckon a litre should do it. I experienced very erratic gear changes when the fluid was low, if you're still 'limping', I'd be inclined to undertake a full flush and change. Dodgy input /output shaft sensors or speed sensors can sometimes cause the 'box to go into limp home mode.

CJ

[Beastlee]

The box was driving OK if a little harsher on random changes and it only limped 3 times in total. Will have to wait until tomorrow morning toconfirm if it feels any better.
One suspicion I have is that it is a sensor or wire is triggering the fault. Needle and haystack are words that spring to mind!

[enyawbrown]

Hi CJ,

Whereas Nick is 100% correct in all he says, I personally think that your 'problem' is simply that you disconnected the battery to reset the ECU and your box is going through the 'fuzzy logic' learning curve again. It will settle down in a maybe 100 miles or so.

I just recently ( 5 days ago ) had my automatic transmission (F4a42, the car is a JDM 1997 V6 ) totally rebuilt,torque converter and everything was drained of fluid. When we got the transmission back from the shop and installed it and everything, it took something like 8.7 quarts of ATF for fluid level to show on the tranny dispstick Anywayz, we took the car for a drive afterwards and I was kinda a lil bit frightened because it was not shifting as smoothly as it should, then I remember the transmission is some sorta INVEC11 (well I think it is) and this transmission "learns" the driver's driving habits and gets used to it after awhile so to speak. I have done less than 15 miles since getting the car back, So I guess my transmission is just in its learning stage again I guess

ANd oh yeah, battery has been disconnected for sumn like 2 weeks prior so I guess my transmission is learning all over again my driving habits although it still is kinda weird-ish the shifting and all