Help with Brakes please

[Sackers]

I know there are lots of threads about brake discs etc but if someone can help with this pleeeeese...

I need to replace my discs (juddering is getting worse) on my 2000 W v6 estate (15" wheels). Looking at the threads here and the possible replacement parts from the likes of Black Diamond, it seems that there are two sizes - 256 or 276 mm diameter. Mine are 265 ish - Is this a wierd set up around facelift time - they look like original discs - and if so am I stuck with just getting Mits standard replacements.

Aaaaarggh!

Thanks if anyone can help.

[I-S]

On a 2000W V6 the discs should be 275mm.

That being the case, you are certainly not limited to just mitsi parts. My personal choice is the standard rossini disc (non drilled, dimpled, striped etc). http://www.carparts-direct.co.uk part no RS3706

After changing the front brakes 3 times on 2 galants, and knowing the resultant judder problems, let me discuss that point a little.

The problem is the way mitsubishi designed the hub/disc interface. When you remove the old disc you MUST make sure that you get the hub face clean and flat, PARTICULARLY between the studs and centre of the hub. Don't run over it with a wire brush and think "that will do" - you may have to spend a few hours working on this. Once you've done it, you should be able to place the new disc up against the hub face on the studs, and not be able to rock it on the surface at all (think of a chair on an uneven floor, the way only 3 legs will sit on the surface - the disc will rock in the same way if there's a problem). You must eliminate this rocking otherwise you will get brake judder within 5000 miles on the new discs.

The manifestation of this judder is interesting - brake lightly and it's reasonably smooth. Increase braking force and it will judder very badly. Increase further and it will be smooth again.

[pitslayer]

and if hte problem is still there after change the brake servo vacuum pipe. the pie that runs off the side of your brake servo with a bulge at one end. take it off, and blow down it each way. if you can blow down one way and not the other its fine, if you blow down both ways and both offer no or very little ressistance then replace it, has a non return valve in it, which makes the air pulse through it, bring out the judder

[Sackers]

On a 2000W V6 the discs should be 275mm.

That being the case, you are certainly not limited to just mitsi parts. My personal choice is the standard rossini disc (non drilled, dimpled, striped etc). http://www.carparts-direct.co.uk part no RS3706

Thanks Isaac I really appreciate the quick response. Any idea why the discs should be 265mm? Was there an extra halfway house cleverly introduced by Mitsu to confuse everyone... Any idea how to tell if the calipers would take a new 275mm disc? I believe the whole setup is new and unmodified from mfg.

Thanks
Tony

[Sackers]

and if hte problem is still there after change the brake servo vacuum pipe....

Thanks for the advice I'll check it out and let you know

[I-S]

Where has the 265ish number come from? The V6 was upgraded to 275 from 99 onwards, then the GDI was introduced with 275 and the GLS upgraded in 2001.

I know of no other size than 256 and 275 for UK galants. I'm interested if there is, but I think the number is wrong.

[Sackers]

Where has the 265ish number come from? The V6 was upgraded to 275 from 99 onwards, then the GDI was introduced with 275 and the GLS upgraded in 2001.

I know of no other size than 256 and 275 for UK galants. I'm interested if there is, but I think the number is wrong.

OK now I have had a chance to take off the wheel and get a closer look (duh! - should have done this before) and it is clearly 275 (not 265) but with some rusting off the edges. Main concern is getting a disc that will fit as it looks quite close to the inside of the caliper. Is it better to get plain discs or drilled / grooved? It seems form others here that the key issue is pads.

Thanks for your help Isaac

Cheers

[I-S]

My recommendation is the RS3706 disc as above, and EBC Greenstuff pads.

IMO Drilled/grooved discs offer no benefit in a typical road-use environment, but will cause greater pad wear.

[Kieran]

IMO Drilled/grooved discs offer no benefit in a typical road-use environment, but will cause greater pad wear.

I found with my V6 Sport that fitting grooved discs against standard pads increased bite no end. It also stops the pads glazing up, though Isaac is quite right that grooves do chew up your pads at an increased rate.

I'm not keen on drilled discs though - I've cracked two sets of discs on my VR-4 and in both cases (in-depth metalurgical examination aside!), the crack's been right across a drill hole. I suspect as the disc expands under heat it does do unevenly around the drill holes.

Pad choice is important, Greenstuffs are a good choice for improved road performance but they still bite well from cold.

[I-S]

I had issues with drilled discs also. Grooves may improve bite somewhat, but glazing should not be an issue under normal road conditions (I'm quite happy to accept that grooved discs may be of benefit on the track).

Greenstuffs aren't the greatest pads ever either, but they're the best I've found of the reasonably available "Fast Road" class pads. Carbotech don't offer a pad in this fitment. Avoid Black Diamond Predator - I had repeated issues with crumbling pads.

[psbarham]

Carbotech don't offer a pad in this fitment. Avoid Black Diamond Predator - I had repeated issues with crumbling pads.

ian now offers a slightly less agressive pad material, i've just sorted some out for a mates celica in the new grade so i shall report back on it later.
as for the pad fitment they can do any pad you want if you send them the backing, they don't list a fitment for T5 volvos but i sorted a set of those and also the celica isn't on their list but they are now in the post 8)

[I-S]

Fair enough, but those pads would come in around £100 per set or more - significantly more than greenstuff. I've no doubt that the carbotechs would offer better performance, but at a price.

[psbarham]

Fair enough, but those pads would come in around £100 per set or more - significantly more than greenstuff. I've no doubt that the carbotechs would offer better performance, but at a price.

green stuffs are about 60 quid, so the carbotechs will work out at 40% more for at least 100% better braking, in fact i would say the carbotechs stop 100% better than redstuffs

[Sackers]

I found with my V6 Sport that fitting grooved discs against standard pads increased bite no end. It also stops the pads glazing up, though Isaac is quite right that grooves do chew up your pads at an increased rate.

I'm not keen on drilled discs though - I've cracked two sets of discs on my VR-4 and in both cases (in-depth metalurgical examination aside!), the crack's been right across a drill hole. I suspect as the disc expands under heat it does do unevenly around the drill holes.

Pad choice is important, Greenstuffs are a good choice for improved road performance but they still bite well from cold.

OK what do people think about the blind drilled option a la EBC Turbogroove? And should you replace all four discs at once - any difficulties with having hard biting higher performance discs on the front and standard marshmallow ones on the back? I was planning on replacing pads all round (redstuff) and front discs.

[I-S]

The rear brakes do bugger all work anyway, so don't worry about them - not worth putting anything other than el cheap boggo pads on there.

You don't need to replace all discs at once - just on a per axle basis.

[Ryan]

I have EBC Green Stuff on my VR-4. I only realised after I'd bought them that the packaging insert read something along the lines of:

"Recommended for cars up to 200BHP"

I still have them in my +/- 300HP car and they do OK

[elnevio]

I was thinking of putting dew discs on the front, maybe the EBC group buy ones, with maybe green stuff / red stuff / carbotech pads (i.e. TBC!). Possibly new calipers too, which leads me to...

I'd have a spare set of VR-4 front discs and calipers. Can these bolt straight onto the rear hubs? Has anybody done it?!

EDIT: No - the rear hubs have the handbrake shoes in!

[Rambaud]

On a 2000W V6 the discs should be 275mm.

That being the case, you are certainly not limited to just mitsi parts. My personal choice is the standard rossini disc (non drilled, dimpled, striped etc). http://www.carparts-direct.co.uk part no RS3706

After changing the front brakes 3 times on 2 galants, and knowing the resultant judder problems, let me discuss that point a little.

The problem is the way mitsubishi designed the hub/disc interface. When you remove the old disc you MUST make sure that you get the hub face clean and flat, PARTICULARLY between the studs and centre of the hub. Don't run over it with a wire brush and think "that will do" - you may have to spend a few hours working on this. Once you've done it, you should be able to place the new disc up against the hub face on the studs, and not be able to rock it on the surface at all (think of a chair on an uneven floor, the way only 3 legs will sit on the surface - the disc will rock in the same way if there's a problem). You must eliminate this rocking otherwise you will get brake judder within 5000 miles on the new discs.

The manifestation of this judder is interesting - brake lightly and it's reasonably smooth. Increase braking force and it will judder very badly. Increase further and it will be smooth again.

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I thought it preferable to keep things together.

I am thinking of changing the rear discs & pads, as the former were an Advisory from last week's MOT. I am pretty sure they are the originals, so 146,000 miles seems OK for wear?

Price is ~ £78.00 + VAT from Carparts Direct.

Is this a still a good choice? Or are there better options?