200 bhp without a turbo

[elnevio]

I can also vouch for the V6 wheel spin issue, being as I remain a current owner of a manual V6-24, for the time being.

I suppose I wasn't that clear with my point - Slim's posts seem to read that no matter how hard he tries, he always get wheelspin in 1st and 2nd.

I was generally very good at getting the power down in the V6 (no arrogance intended, I just got used to it) - but I drove it to its capabilities - including the maximum amount of power I could utilise off the line, based on the incumbent conditions. I mean, a Veyron doesn't get to use all 1,001bhp until in the higher gears, because of traction.

Kieran's already summarised my overriding point rather succinctly though. Even if you COULD get ALL the power down, i.e. there was no benefit of superior traction, the VR-4 would still be quicker.

EDIT: Footnote: to quote a certain tyre commercial - "Power is nothing without control"

[psbarham]

it still amazes me that the manual v6 owners struggle getting off the line, the auto is a peice of pi$$ to launch even at 2500 rpm, it must be down to driving styles and experience. for example, martin( a mate of mine) has a 300+ hp T5 ikea wardrobe and struggles to beat the g-tech time set by my v6, i however have beaten that time several times in the sideboard of doom with very little problems of wheelspin.

what i am trying to say is there is nothing wrong with the v6 manual or its grip, its a driver issue.

oh and as more proof, mr the vee has no real issues with grip unless he is really daft with the throttle. but then again he's been driving for longer than most of the planets been alive

[Scanny]

spot on psb. Driver issue. I cant comment on the v6 itself (waiting for funds to clear so i can buy it) but generally speaking the launch is down to the drivers control of the clutch, handbrake and accelerator. Get it wrong and you wheelspin, get it spot on and you are off. It doesnt matter what the car is. If you cock it up you wont get a perfect launch

[Slimshady]

I can also vouch for the V6 wheel spin issue, being as I remain a current owner of a manual V6-24, for the time being.

I suppose I wasn't that clear with my point - Slim's posts seem to read that no matter how hard he tries, he always get wheelspin in 1st and 2nd.

I was generally very good at getting the power down in the V6 (no arrogance intended, I just got used to it) - but I drove it to its capabilities - including the maximum amount of power I could utilise off the line, based on the incumbent conditions. I mean, a Veyron doesn't get to use all 1,001bhp until in the higher gears, because of traction.

Kieran's already summarised my overriding point rather succinctly though. Even if you COULD get ALL the power down, i.e. there was no benefit of superior traction, the VR-4 would still be quicker.

EDIT: Footnote: to quote a certain tyre commercial - "Power is nothing without control"

Now this statement I do agree with, you have nailed it on the head, when I drive I have to be very careful with the loud peddle – too much and it spins the front – too little and I am not making the most of it.

In other words if you want to put all of the power down you can’t because it will wheel spin so as I have found you have to tickle her there with sometimes less than half throttle and be careful not to have too many revs when you change gear otherwise she will not bite and spin in the next gear.

Well done and thank you for helping me explain how you cannot get the power down in a V6

Slim

[Turbo_Steve]

You CAN'T beat a VR-4.
The 4WD WILL get the VR-4 to 30mph quicker than the V6.
Once at 30mph, the 4WD and weight start to count against the VR-4, however it's already in front of the V6 which doesn't have enough to claw itself back.

Past the midrange, the VR-4 will pull ahead, as weight is gradually factored out, but aerodynamics vs pure power output come into play. V6 loses again.

The v6 cannot make peak torque from a standstill. In fact, I would suggest that there is not a FWD car made that will deliver peak torque from a standstill without wheelspinning.
ANY FWD car be persuaded to deliver 200bhp to the wheels, however, and will be able to put peak power down if driven correctly.

Driver skill makes a huge difference here: just look at the 400bhp Honda Civics doing drag times in the 10s arena. They will beat a VR4, and they don't spin like made going up the strip. There can be a controlled amount of spin from launch to protect the transmission. Typically, however, these are launched using less than 50% throttle. This keeps the torque below a specifed rating. Once the car is moving, the torque is increased smoothly but quickly to maximum.

This is the same in any FWD car, and is why the Honda VTECS tend not to be wheelspin monsters: the point where they totally break traction is so high up the rev range that it is rarely encountered, even in an aggressive launch.
The trick is to launch at revs which are JUST below peak power, and usually to shift AT the peak power point, not after it.
The gearing of the car will almost always be set to deliver you just below the power curve as you arrive in 2nd, and hurl you forwards again. The autos do this without any driver involvement.
Well set-up turbo'd FWD cars do exactly this: you will usually be delivered to the point just before the turbo makes full boost on a gear change.

IF you're doing high RPM launches, your tyres aren't going to make a difference...in fact if they DO grip, it's entirely possibly you'll snap a shaft or lunch your gearbox, or simply burn the clutch. 4WD cars can do all sorts of damage to themselves just by launching hard a few times: It's generally better if they DO spin up a bit!

As for the Lotus Carlton tuning....there is not an 800bhp chip: that's BS.
There is a complete tune (injectors, turbos, exhuast, intercooler, other stuff + chip) but a chip on it's own will not deliver that power in that car.

The T25 turbos will each deliver a maximum of 300bhp if you really abuse them (I know this: I have a pair in the garage that I removed because they weren't going to give me more than 500bhp without damaging them, and in fact didn't like the abuse of delivering 450bhp) whilst the injectors (roughly 400cc/min) aren't going to go to 800bhp either. Not even close. In fact, curiously, they'd probably peak at around 600bhp, roughly where the turbos can PEAK to.

So it can handle a 600bhp spike, but the intercoolers will saturate, the impeller tips melt, and the piston tops aren't likely to last long. It simply won't make more than this. In fact any chip on sale is going to 'manage' the fuelling properly, so will likely take the injectors to 90% duty, and cut the fuel past this point.

If you're going to BS, at least make it plasuible.