"Buyer beware" - the story of Keithatport's VR4

[peter thomson]

As many you will have noticed things haven't gone too well since Keith bought his VR4. After initial contact and the viewing of the car all seemed well and Zee appeared to be an honest nice guy with nothing to hide.

The first problem Keith had to deal with was the failure of the TC seal which we discovered the next day with a puddle of oil under the car. We initially topped up the gearbox and drove it 8 miles back to Keith's house. Checked underneath and no oil. On returning to my house and again inspecting the car the leak had appeared. This explained why we didn't discover the leak at Zee's. Also the car had just come from a car wash.
After contacting Zee he initially offered to repair the car if we took it back to him as he said it would only cost him £150. My advice to Keith was not to drive it back down to Bradford in case it failed completely and the box was ruined. We said we would replace the seal and a refund of £200 was agreed. Zee changed this to £100 the next day which as we know does not cover the cost of a flush with amsoil. Keith didn't push it as he was still very happy with the car.
He also queried Zee about the rear foglights which he claimed had been incorporated into the rear light cluster and that a switch was on the lower panel of the dash. There isn't a switch and there are no foglights? We gave up on this and decided we would sort this out ourselves.

It was only when I saw this thread I became a very worried about the MOT

http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthr...&highlight=mot

I confirmed that it was a different garage but on checking the advisory notice we found that both inner track rods had play but not enough to fail the MOT. What destroyed any faith in Zee was the information that there was an oil leak present.

As the receipt Keith received from Zee said "sold as seen" we believed there was nothing that could be done but as the seal had been replaced and there were no other apparent problems again the matter was not pursued and the car had been running fine up until 2 weeks ago.

The gearbox then went into limp home mode and the diagnostic code revealed that a solenoid had failed. A new set was ordered from the states and fitted last weekend but no change and fault code was still present.
A few people then mentioned that a trader cannot sell a car as sold as seen and that we should look into this.

Keith contacted Zee and he told us there was a 30 day warranty ,which was the first time we had heard about this. Because we had repaired the seal the warranty was now void.

Keith then pointed out that the seal was leaking at the MOT and queried how the car passed an MOT with no rear foglights. His response to this question was a shock and proof that take anything he says with a pinch of salt

"I can pass you onto the trader that supplied the car to me and he also got the car mot'd

I am honestly not at fault as i would not make a fool out of myself and point out a switch that wouldnt even turn the foglight on.

I was told that the foglight switch was the one under the steering wheel.

I am willing to provide you with the details of the supplier of this car who couldnt sell it and passed it onto me and i modified it by adding alloys and brembo caliper covers and just sold it on as it was.

If i was dodgy i wouldnt even reply but i am also concerned and not a heartless prat who doesnt give a ****.

I do care and would help BUT i am sorry i cant, PLEASE tell me what you would like me to do.

Zee
"

Zee has led us to believe this car and others are sourced by him in Japan

http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showpos...7&postcount=41

Zee had even told us he drove the car from Southampton to Bradford .Post 12 here
http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35565

I don't know where any of the other cars Zee has sold have been MOT'd but it would be interesting to hear from other members if it is the same garage and if they have any concerns with there MOT or other aspects of there car.
The garage that MOT'd keith's car is Great Horton Service Station.

I have been in contact with 2 other club members who are not all that happy either but it will be up to them if they want to add there experience to the thread.

If I've missed anything I'm sure Keith can fill in the blanks.
In the end would be buy a car from Zee again. A definite no and should he be allowed to continue as a member on CVR4.

Keith is now pursuing this with trading standards and VOSA regarding the MOT

Apoligies for the length of this post.

[miller]

No need to apologise Peter at all. Hope Keith gets it all sorted via money back or full repair job.

Again i question the right to a car trader to ply their wares across a forum without paying full traders fees as i mentioned before on another thread relating to this guy


Mike

edit:

link added to thread containing Zee's first few posts

http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthr...=phat+modified

[Danj]

I agree whole heartedly and hope that Keith gets a full refund. I also share Peters viewpoint that perhaps the membership should be seriously considered, - especially if he is using his CVR-4 association to sell unroadworthy cars to unsuspecting customers. Does the club really want that hanging over it?

[elnevio]

Zee, the floor is yours. Use it wisely.

[keithatport]

Cheers Miller. Thank for the support.

[shaun1978]

I for one am sceptical of the merits of buying from a trader again, especially in these times when they are all looking to cut costs and sell cars. the last two cars I have bought from traders, that are supposedly with warranties, that you later find out are not worth the paper they are printed on.

I say treat every purchase as a private purchase unless you know 100% that you know what your getting....

[elnevio]

Given the nature of this thread, there may be a requirement for the administrators to keep it cleaned up and strictly on track. Just so you know.

[Kieran]

Given the nature of this thread, there may be a requirement for the administrators to keep it cleaned up and strictly on track. Just so you know.

Indeed - I must say I appreciate that the thread is remaining open for discussion and commentary.

Issues such as this concerning buyer/seller are inherently emotive and can get very messy very quickly. If I may back up what Nev's saying to some degree, let's make sure this remains feedback and comments. Nothing wrong with being open, honest and frank, but let's make sure this doesn't turn into a slag-fest.

[Throbbe]

As the receipt Keith received from Zee said "sold as seen" we believed there was nothing that could be done

As a general comment, rather than a dig at Zee who has yet to give his version of events, 'sold as seen' means nothing when buying from a trader. You're still covered by Sale of Goods and the like. Sorry it's a bit late in your case.

[Atik]

Man, thats not good to hear. I guess with cars like ours which are very high maintenance, you need to be sure that everything has been looked after and maintained, and traders who are usually looking to cut corners will not go to the lengths that are required to maintain them.

Club cars are your best choice as generally they've been looked after.

But I hope things get sorted for you mate. Its horrible having to deal with loads of crap that should not be a problem in the first place.

[elnevio]

Ok, I have temporarily closed this thread to allow me to post everything up without any extra posts interspersed between mine!

Anyway, what follows are the missing posts that Kieran saved. I think it will make the thread complete following the recent probs. These posts follow on from atik's post (#10).

Then my response will follow and the thread be reopened.

[elnevio]

Posted by chrisvr4 at 10:22 PM on 21 January 2009

i myself bought a car from zee about 4 months ago and have had numerous problems. There is no rear foglight on the car and when i called zee regarding this he told me that he bolted one onto the back for the mot but took it off after and because it looked stupid, having looked under the bumper there is no evidence that he had done this, also my car does not have a working horn, again i contacted zee and his reply was something must have happened when the speedo was converted to MPH, he told me that there are horns on the car, i have looked under the bonnet but cant seem to find any. I saw my car on ebay for sale, and the advert CLEARLY stated that this car would not catch on any speed hump. Again this was also not to be true as i was driving around the front caught on a speed hump and left a 3cm split in the middle of my bumper. I had to get a garage to raise the car at a cost of £60. Car also had a 12 month mot and was done at the same garage as peter's brother (great horton), also i had a reciept with a 30 day warranty, and car was sold as seen. I have only done a few hundred miles since i had this car and some faults are occuring. There seems to be a missfire/juddering when being heavy footed, and i am hearing a creeking noise when i am turning left i.e parking up. I myself am questioning the mot station where zee is getting these cars mot'd. Oh and another thing, the log book zee gave me showed my registration belonged to a mazda? but i have now had that rectified by the dvla.

[elnevio]

Posted by peter thomson at 10:33 PM on 21 January 2009

Thanks Chris your input confirms what I have stated above

[elnevio]

Posted by shaun1978 at 10:45 PM on 21 January 2009

personally I would be reporting this to VOSA

[elnevio]

Posted by chrisvr4 at 10:49 PM on 21 January 2009

You're welcome peter. People have the right to know about this seller and it is up to them whether they deal with him.

[elnevio]

Posted by chrisvr4 at 11:00 PM on 21 January 2009

I forgot to add this to my previous post, my car had no side lights when i bought it, again i phoned zee and he told me he took them out because the white light was not matching the xenon headlight conversion kit he installed to the car, he told me he would get some matching bulbs (blue) and post them which he did but they were the wrong fitment and could not be fitted.

[elnevio]

Posted by rees at 02:23 AM on 22 January 2009

any time soon is good zee...

[elnevio]

Posted by fluffnik at 02:46 AM on 22 January 2009

Considering where adverts are;

Should Paul Garlick at PistonHeads be pointed at this thread?

[elnevio]

Posted by elnevio at 06:46 AM on 22 January 2009

Some serious stuff here Zee. It would appear to be in your best interests to respond accordingly, and soon.

[elnevio]

Posted by TORQUE OF THE DEVIL at 09:47 AM on 22 January 2009

I was just waiting for Keith and peter to finish.

M.O.T

The car was purchased from southampton car auctions (mca) by a Trader from Ireland

This car was mot'd by Mark Luney who is a trader from Belfast. He had this car advertised for 6 months but couldnt sell it.

I was contacted By Mark and we made a deal as he noticed that i didnt have a problem selling Legnums. I was advised that the car had m.o.t and that there was only 6 months left.

i have attached a copy of the last email received from Mark below:-

Re: vr4
Monday, 27 October, 2008 2:18 PM
From:
"mark luney" <marksluney@ntlworld.com>
Add sender to Contacts
To:
m11gen@yahoo.co.uk

ref number that you will need to quote on pickup is:- 599104148
you can pick it up from trade cars section at the port norfolk line birkenhead, you will need photographic id to collect it no id they wont let you have it so passport is good ,its all paid for and battery etc is all good on it even has petrol in it. the mot is in the glove box. 12 Quays Terminal, Tower Road, Birkenhead, Wirrall, CH41 1FE ...

I purchased the car with a mot.

as soon as i got it a had it motd again. It passed and i picked it up.

I was advised by Mark that the Foglight switch was under the steering wheel.

Now i never checked the foglight to see wether it was working or not and neither did i check the advisory sheet.

If i had seen that there were faults why would i leave it attached to the mot..??

Now i dont know why the garage passed the car without the foglight but thats there problem.

When i was asked by Keith about the foglight i only told him what i was told, and if i knew that it wasnt a foglight switch i wouldnt have pointed it out.

Mark Luney is the person you need to speak to regarding this. I have just PM'd Keith his mobile number.

Now as far as i am concerned there was a foglight on that car and could possibly be that Keith and Peter are making it all up as they obviously are not getting a gearbox from me, so the best thing for them to do is promote that i am a dodgy trader so i lose business.

Well thats fine by me.

As explained to alot of customers who ask the same question regarding the rear foglight.

I receive my cars on a transporter and they get delivered direct to the M.O.T. station and then all work is carried out there.

I fit a temporary foglight that is double sided onto the rear bumper, the wire is then fed through the car and pushed under the trim. The switch is then wired normally from the cigarette lighter as most imports dont come with stereos and this makes it much easier to wire up. the switch is also double sided and this is a quick fix so i can pass the MOT

Then this system is then passed on from car to car so i can do all the mots in one day and then register them all together the following day.

This makes my life easier and also satisfies alot of customers that have always hated the look or the fact that there is a foglight dangling from the rear bumper.

You are the first customer to complain in 8 years of trading.

Now a Reply to "chrisvr4"

You cheeky B!"£$%^d

I picked you and your wife up from the train station, put xenons in the car for you, it had broken drivers side wind deflector and i ordered you a full set but unfortunately they only sent me the front 2 and ripped me off. I even gave you the item number for the purchase so you could see that i was honest and that it wasnt my fault or error.

I advised you that i removed the sidelights and also for what reason and now you coming on here and slaying into me for no aparent reason.

You say i sent you the wrong side lights but you didnt contact me and tell me but you can come on ebay and yahoo and contact me and kiss my arse for a manual legnum, and now you chatting **** about me, you sly b!"£$%d

Well there is alot of people reading this and it is very hard to make and maintain good reputation, BUT all it takes is someone to talk **** and mess it all up.

There are plenty of my cars on here and plenty of customers that have dealt with me that have positive experiences in buying cars and thats what matters