crank seal replaced now timing out?? HELP!

[-=white-zombie=-]

hey guys, i need some advice... i got the car back from mechanics they replaced the timing crank seal, it was rooted all hard and leaking, and now my car has a real lumpy idle and feels slightly down on power.
i thought right they must of put the belt on one tooth out or somthing, but they took the timing covers off and showed me all the cam pulleys markings lined up to the head and the crank pulley lined up to TDC mark... theyre stumped and i dont know what to do, im thinking maybe a sensor has been bumped or somthing...
i have replaced all the spark plugs and leads recently so it wont be any of those... any ideas ???
should the crank be lined up tdc or 5degrees btdc?? because theyve set it to tdc... under the bonnet theres a btdc 5deg but whats this for ? crank or ign timing?

[PaddyB]

The crank's supposed to be turned 1 tooth anticlockwise from being aligned with the marks before the belt goes on (according to the workshop manual).

Get full membership - you can give the mechanics printouts of the resources which will stop this sort of head scratching.

[-=white-zombie=-]

oh true so that would make it roughly 5deg before top dead center correct?

[PaddyB]

That said I'm not really sure if that 1 tooth offset is taken out when the belt tensioner is wound up: I've had a look at mine & the timing marks appear to all line up (more or less). I'll take some photos tomorrow.

Also there's no where near the number of teeth required to make 1 tooth 5 deg.

[Davezj]

there is a sticker on the underside of the bonnet that says something like 6 Degree BTDC but that is the timing not the cam crank offset. i believe the ECU handle the electronic timing.

[richy rich]

Get them to do a compression test to find out if they let a valve hit a piston.

All the marks should line up after belt is fitted. 1 on each cam and 1 on crank pully.

[-=white-zombie=-]

i took the car to a mitsi dealer today, wanted a second opinion and they hooked up their timing computer and found the cam timing is way out and didnt even register on the ignition timing... fark!
so i talked to the mechanic who did the work and they are going to redo the timing belt 2moro, but i will be pissed if it has hit a valve wouldnt it run worse if a valve was out? it revs out ok just a bit down on power and has lumpy idle...

[richy rich]

That is not good.

[Davezj]

take richy's advice and get a get a compression test done if a valve is bent then it will not seal correctly and the commession value will be down. as the pressure will blow past the valve.

[PaddyB]

Is it possible to replace the crank sprocket or position sensor (I mean the thing that the sensor reads) incorrectly ??

Definitely listen to Richy - he knows what he's on about.

[Davezj]

yes you can change the crank sensor. it is not too difficult if you already have the cam belt off.

[Subaru ETA]

maybe the have undone the crank sensor and havent repositioned it correctly?

[-=white-zombie=-]

cars fixed now, went in to mechs this morn and they found front exhaust cam was a tooth out on the cambelt, so its all sweet now with nice smooth idle and full power again...
thanks guys for all your input..

[Subaru ETA]

thats a fairly average effort if they got the front exhaust cam wrong - thats the easy one!! i would of thought it would of been the rear exhaust cam - thats a pain in the arse

[PaddyB]

Glad it's all sorted.

I'll repeat what I said earlier: sign up - you'll have access to loads of stuff that will stop your mechanics scratching their heads.

[richy rich]

Glad it's all sorted.

I'll repeat what I said earlier: sign up - you'll have access to loads of stuff that will stop your mechanics scratching their heads.

Totally agree if they had locked the cams the same way I've put in my article on changing a cam belt they cant get the cams out of place.


Id say it was a bad effort.

thats a fairly average effort if they got the front exhaust cam wrong - thats the easy one!! i would of thought it would of been the rear exhaust cam - thats a pain in the arse

i thought right they must of put the belt on one tooth out or somthing, but they took the timing covers off and showed me all the cam pulleys markings lined up to the head and the crank pulley lined up to TDC mark..."

How did they check the marks as this is a pig sometimes to see if not using a squaure to check.

Id get the cam belt tensioner checked, if they have not made sure that this is in good nick you could be looking at a shagged engine in the here future, plus if the cam belt is not tensioned correctly it is poss to jump a tooth.

[-=white-zombie=-]

they did my cambelt 6months ago, we replaced w/pump idlers tensioner and auto tensioner, but we left seals out, so now i learn the lesson the hard way.. i work for repco so i get parts cheap and theyr one of our good mechanics, they did me a good deal on labour both times so i cant really complain...
so yeah the auto tensioner should still be mint..

[richy rich]

they did my cambelt 6months ago, we replaced w/pump idlers tensioner and auto tensioner, but we left seals out, so now i learn the lesson the hard way.. i work for repco so i get parts cheap and theyr one of our good mechanics, they did me a good deal on labour both times so i cant really complain...
so yeah the auto tensioner should still be mint..

[PaddyB]

Another thing to check is that the cambelt is put back on so it rotates the same way as before.

[eyeballprawn]

The crank's supposed to be turned 1 tooth anticlockwise from being aligned with the marks before the belt goes on (according to the workshop manual).

Get full membership - you can give the mechanics printouts of the resources which will stop this sort of head scratching.

What's the purpose putting it one tooth out before fitting the belt?

Should all the crank sprocket dimple and timing mark line back up again once the belt is correctly tensioned?