RR Day at Wallace Performance Aberdeen 27th of March

[aboo]

I'm organising a rolling road day at Wallace Performance.

I booked the 27th of March as phosty ,dinger & myself are going.

There is a minimum of 5 for the RR & will cost £50 for two runs. You will get all graphs.

If know one shows any intrest on here in the next couple of days then I will be posting a thread on Japclan Forum.

I'd rather it was all VR4's.


Deffo's

aboo
phosty
dinger

[aboo]

Bump.

Would be good to get some Scottish members at this.

Come on guys.

As I'm going to Moffat this weekend I will leave it on here till Monday before I post it on other forums.

[peter thomson]

Who will be running the dyno Andy. I can't remeber the name of the guy with the good rep off my head

[keithatport]

I might be interested. Put me down as a maybe.

[aboo]

Who will be running the dyno Andy. I can't remeber the name of the guy with the good rep off my head

Not sure who will be doing the runs but I could fined out.

I'll try & give them a ring tomorrow if not will be Monday.

[peter thomson]

I think it's Russ and you don't want anybody else especially if any changes are carried out.

[aboo]

Was on the phone to Wallace today & its Matty thats doing the dyno.

[dinger1983]

I think it's Russ and you don't want anybody else especially if any changes are carried out.

every were has conditions are we getting another dodgy dyno

[peter thomson]

no idea who he is . Maybe somedoby could get some feedback from the MLR

[Nutter_John]

Already been asked to do that for you guys Peter , I will send a pm to a few people up around there and ask a few questions

[peter thomson]

great thanks John

[phosty]

Sorry, missed this thread. I'm in anyway, regardless of who is pressing the pedal. Does it really matter so much so long as you know what to ask for?

Andy, I thought the main issue with yours last time at Hypertech was the boost control and the speedlimiter because he ran it in full auto or tip in 4th (can't remember which).

[AndyBaird85]

better get my clutch on then

[dinger1983]

yep you better mr baird

[aboo]

Andy, I thought the main issue with yours last time at Hypertech was the boost control and the speedlimiter because he ran it in full auto or tip in 4th (can't remember which).[/QUOTE]

Thats right Phil & it was trip in 4th.

[phosty]

It might be worth getting some advice from Benh (Eurospec) or similar before we go as I'm not convinced the Wallace guys are too hot on how best to do autos. Note they use a Dastek Dyno - maybe someone knowledgeable on such things could comment on the merits or otherwise of Dasteks vs. DynoDynamics etc etc.

I took my Silver VR4 to Wallace a while back for a power run, You can see it was done by Gavin Wallace:



It was a straight power run, in full auto. It hit the speed limiter at the very end. I believe the visible plot shows gears 2 thru 5 (the gear shifts are at each dip) but I'm not entirely sure (there could be a gear change in the slight dip in the middle - but then that would mean I hit 222 FlyHP in 1st!).

You should note that the lower speed axis reads in mph yet the stock VR4 speed cuts at ~112mph so it looks to be scaled incorrectly? If not then I hit peak power at 48mph(ish).

At the top it shows the 'Gear Used: 4' which it may have been using for the estimate of speed, but I'm not sure on this one - surely the roller speed is a true measure of equivalent car speed? He had no idea of what ratio 4th gear was (and never asked) so maybe it defaulted to some assumed (incorrect) value.

I asked for both wheel and fly HP figures and they are clearly given just above the curve (202.2 HP and 239.6 HP).

The ratio of Wheel to fly HP suggests it used a total power train loss of only 15.6% = [1-(202.2/239.6)] to get from measured (wheel) HP to Fly wheel HP which seemed very low compared to the usual 24%(4wd) + 7%(auto) that is generally used.

I asked the guys at Wallace why the ratio was so low and they said the Dastek dynos measure the actual losses on the 'Coastdown' immediately after the power run. I asked for more details but they admitted they weren't too up on the theory so I contacted Dastek Dynos in Fife directly.

Dastek sent me document on how their Dynos measure actual power train losses (see attached). Their method is apparently disputed by some. When I queried how it should correctly be applied to autos he admitted that the operator should really select Neutral as soon as the coastdown starts (Wallace didn't afaik). He also pointed out that there were some bugs in the version of the software that Wallace were using at that time (the ‘Ramp Rate’ and ‘Gear Used’ were not relevant to a power run on an auto car - apparently an "auto car should just be run up against the inherent inertia of the rollers & retarder rather than controlled by the brake at a fixed rate which is difficult to do on auto’s because of torque convertor slip & kick-down").

So I don’t want to put you off but we need to be well armed with info before we go.

[col1n]

some friends of mine used to use dastek in fife and got very very unreliable power figures compared to the dynodynamics setup, it would seem they programme the run to give a higher hp reading than it should be. i personally wont be using hypertec anymore cos it seems duncan aint got a clue about these cars, so i would highly recommend extreme motorsport in whitburn, they are an evo specialist and are very highly recommended on MLR and ive already had mine done there last year.
i'll dig out contact details if use are interested inusing them instead

[phosty]

As I wasn't convinced that Wallace had done the run correctly and also due to the fact they only gave me a power run and not a full dyno measurement (i.e. AFR, boost etc) I took it to Japerformance two days later.



You can see that this one had the speed axis correct (Fly HP).

However I also asked for Wheel HP but the lower axis was given in rpm which looks wrong so I think there is some (incorrect) assumption about gear ratio used.





Interesting that Wallace was 202 HP (Fly) and 240 HP (wheel) i.e. 16% losses but from Japerformance was 186 HP (Fly) and 260 HP (wheel) i.e. 28% losses.

They were tested 2 days apart with no mods done in between.....

[aboo]

Well this is what I'm trying to fined out Phil cause I dont want anyone to be disappointed. Thats why I asked John last night to see what he could fined out on MLR.

Colin WP also have a very good rep on MLR as there very good with Evo's.

But as we'r finding out Rep dosent meen much except for eurospec as we know they are up to the task with our cars but they are a bit far for a day trip for us Scottish members.

I'm in to minds now so will wait to see if we get anymore info & take it from there.

Also I think that WP have been taking over since You were there Phil.

[col1n]

heres the link to extremes website
http://www.extreme-motorsport.co.uk/index.html