Upgrade 2002 Galant 2.5 v6 (EA5A) front single-pot calipers to twin-pots?

[NU51]

thx bradc,

re the pad touching all of the 294mm disc: that's a perfectly valid point .

it may be best if I wait to see if anybody with a facelift 'non VR4' fitted with the 4-stud 275mm discs and twin-pot 158mm calipers comes along to confirm that this combo was in fact used.

then again, i could just source some used twin-pot 158mm calipers with old pads and see how the pads sit against the 275mm disc and if there is pad overhang forget it as a feasible upgrade and re-sell the calipers, negating purchasing a caliper rebuild kit and expensive new pads.

have submitted an enquiry to National Brake Discs re post 19 so will be interesting to see what feedback I get.

[VR4WGN]

my Mivec conversion is a 4stud facelift with FL hubs and twin pot fornts,iv just converted it to 5stud tho...i will measure up for you this morning and post up this avo,if thats ok

[NU51]

thx VR4WGN that would be great.
errrm ... not for wanting to sound dumb (but obviously i am going to come across as ) does FL hubs mean Facelift Hubs?

[bradc]

yes

[elnevio]

I don't know the size of the RVR's discs. They're about 25mm or so smaller than the VR-4 ones, but take the same pads. And the whole pad surface is definitely used. I changed them a fortnight ago.

[swinks]

Then to post 19, on a VR-4 the pad touches the entire 294mm disc, so if you ran a smaller disc then quite a bit of the pad would surely be in mid air with no disc to touch!

Brad, with all respect... bo***cks.
Hub carriers and calipers are the same in FL Galant n/a and facelift VR4. Pads are the same and are sitting nicely on discs regardless it's 276mm or 294mm.

[bradc]

That was more theorising on my part but of the caliper is the same and the pad is the same, then surely running a different sized disc would mean that for one size of disc it isn't optimal and isn't going to contact the full face?

[VR4WGN]

ok guys the Facelift 2.4 4 stud i converted has Front Discs at roughly 255 and the front Caliper bolt hole roughly 158. the rear GET THIS is 262 and the brake holes are 138.

again thes eare near ok so give or take..,cant believe the rear is bigger than the front tho

[fuel]

its common for rears to be larger - the E84A Galant VR-4 has 276mm up front and 284mm at the rear - both vented too. Often why the rear is larger is because there is an internal drum shoe for the handbrake which takes up a bit of room.

you'll find the rear 266's will be solid though compared to the front 256's vented.

[NU51]

Thx VR4WGN,
So the 158mm twin-pots are fine with 255mm discs....
that's weird but is good news (if there's no pad overhang like bradc was quite rightly concerned about).
Will mean they should be ok with 276mm discs then.

[NU51]

Good News guys

I just got off the phone with the guy at National Brake Discs who designs all their discs
(explained the single-pot to twin-pot conversion I am wanting to achieve)
and because the 'performance' discs are a made to order item (as i suspected)....

they can supply a set of PBD978G 8 slot groove performance discs
(which are the correct 294mm diameter 5-stud fitting pattern 8 slot performance disc version of the NBD978 disc for facelift VR4 and Evo 4)
BUT (this is the cool bit) can supply them with the 4-stud pattern from the NBD1134 disc (correct 275mm disc for 'non VR4' facelift 2.5v6 Galants).

http://www.national-auto.co.uk/cata.htm

How cool is that?! No need for me to redrill or have an engineering shop redrill brand spanking new PBD978G discs!

to National Brake Discs

(naturally, I will have to make sure this request is relayed correctly by whichever motor factor company
I use to order the discs for me coz members of the public cannot order directly from National Brake Discs)

So.... next step .... any of you guys know of a motor factors company that give a good deal to Club VR-4 members when ordering a National Brake Discs / Ferodo DS2500 combo?

[VR4WGN]

well done man,youv done well then with the knowledge and advice given,good ups for you rsearching,i woulda asked lol,too lazy.. hope you come rite but you HAVETO give detailed pics lol

[NU51]

thx VR4WGN. but ..... really it should be I thanking you guys coz if it weren't for you guys I'd NEVER have gotten this far so a HUGE to everyone who's given their input

my plan of attack now is to source some used facelift twin-pot calipers (hopefully with used pads included too) and pop em on with the current 275mm discs in place as a quick test to confirm they're ok with the 275mm discs (just in case I need to buy standard 275mm discs if National Brakes can't do the 'custom' order in the future).

if everything is sweet at that point i'll order the 294mm 'custom' discs from National Brakes and some Ferodo DS2500 pads and a caliper rebuild kit from Camskill and give the calipers a good service and paint while waiting for the discs to arrive.

of course, if all goes well, I'll take pix and do a separate writeup detailing the upgrade in case other peeps come along and are interested in performing the same upgrade.

who knows, if plenty of other peeps out there show interest in the upgrade, we may be able to convince National Brakes to list this 'upgrade' disc in their catalogue under a unique part # (as a performance only disc option) so as to make the ordering of it easier to others. I did tell them about Club VR4 and that the common consensus on CVR4 is that the factory brakes are terrible items, explaining that others may come along in the future with the same requirement. i've got the email address of 1 of their guys so if the upgrade is a success I'll start a 'poll' (of sorts) on here by means of hopefully convincing National Discs to list the 'upgrade' disc.

[NU51]

am now going to begin researching phase 2 - suspension:
Bilstein B12 vs Coilovers.
(but will start a separate thread for that of course)

you wouldn't think I was considering selling the Galant late last year would you?!

[Johnny_Cashed]

Watching with interest, I'm sure there's a reason why not but if you've got facelift carriers and you can get a larger disc would it not be possible to put brembos on there?

[NU51]

hi Johnny_Cashed,

well I'm by no means knowledgeable enough re mechanics (as others will have no doubt realised by now ) to make a justified comment on a Brembo conversion for the 4-stud facelift hub carriers, but it may be possible with a bit more research.

I think you'd be getting into the realms of caliper/wheel 'offset' (is something I know absolutely nothing about) with the Brembo conversion too. And would such a costly upgrade (and headache ) be justifiable on a non VR4 car? Could it also be a case of the 4-stud pattern not being strong/safe enough to handle the stopping power of a 320mm Brembo solution (is 1 for somebody more knowledgeable to chip in with I think).

And, given the cost of purchasing used Brembo's (plus a caliper rebuild kit) together with 4-stud pattern 320mm discs (if National Brakes can supply them) and pads as a whole package, could it be more advantageous (and less headache) to purchase a 6-pot caliper/disc kit from the likes of K-sport?

Of course .... the Brembo solution would look very cool

Personally, I'm sure I'll be more than happy if my proposed upgrade solution works because my car will never see a track and I'll definitely be able to retain the standard 17" wheels which i think are really nice. Oh, and not only are the non VR4 cars less powerful but they're also a lump lighter than the VR4's.

At the end of the day... IMHO it's a matter of how deep your pockets are and how much you want out of the car. With the cash saved from a 'non Brembo' conversion I'm sure I could buy some 1/2 decent front & rear anti-roll/sway bars. My next step is looking into improving the wollowy standard suspension. It's all cash and my pockets have to extend to parts for motorbike too so I have to stop somewhere

[bradc]

There really is no need to go with brembo's, I've had VR-4 calipers and discs on my ST-R for a few years now and have never been able to outdrive them. The ST-R is a V6 with 175hp (more than the uk ones) and has 4wd so quite a bit heavier.

I think you'll be able to find a facelift twin piston VR-4 caliper fairly easily though, quite a few people have upgraded to brembo's and not that many people want them!

[Nick Mann]

I have recently broken a V6 Sport, that I *think* had twin pot calipers. The pads and discs are like new, and I'm sure I still have the calipers kicking around too.

I'll check it out on monday.

Where abouts are you? Do you want to come and have a look?

[Nick Mann]

Brad - plenty of people in the UK have struggled to find a suitable combination of discs/fluid/pads to cope with trackdays. I am one of them. Brembos has been that solution for me. I have only once cooked uprated standard VR4 brakes on the road once though.

[bradc]

Yes but you have a VR-4. Try out driving VR-4 brakes on an n/a V6!