Considering a galant VR4

[StuartTheFish]

Hi all, I like my fast japanese cars and currently have an MR2 turbo, though with the arrival of my baby boy it's now getting used less and less which I'm gutted about. I'm considering a couple of cars I could replace it with, one of which is an ST205 celica GT4 as I already know the engine, though I don't have the budget to take it much over 300bhp. Since I'm already used to about that power in my MR2, the addition of 4wd and the celica's extra weight will just cripple it. Another option would be an evo IV, V or VI, but again my budget is an issue and doubt I'd have enough funds to insure and maintain it properly. I also thought about an S15 turbo but they're a bit out of my price range. So are supras, and can't be very practical getting kids in the back of it! I'd love a skyline at some point too, but again that isn't going to happen any time soon. So now I'm here. I've always liked the look of the 8th generation galant, in fact the only 4 door car I like the look of apart from the evo's mentioned above, so it might be time for a VR4 soon.

I have a few questions though, like what are they like to insure, maintain and fuel? Are there still good examples out there to buy? Are there any versions that are better than others? Better spec from a certain year for example? Are they expensive to modify? I'd only really be able to afford breathing, EBC, etc, don't have the budget for rebuilds or my MR2 would be considerably quicker by now!

What's their performance like? 0-60 after these light mods for example. Not for pub bragging rights, I just love the acceleration and don't want my next car to be a downgrade. I always get a car quicker than my last, and my current one was able to do 0-60 in 4.5 seconds and the 1/4 mile in 13 flat before I fitted the EBC. How well does the VR4 respond to light mods like I've mentioned? Would it be able to put a smile on my face after having the MR2? I hope something relatively affordable can, as the wife's mazda 2 sport doesn't really hit the spot the same way!

[elnevio]

Hi and .

I could go through all your questions one-by-one, although I think one simple statement might be enough:

The VR-4 is not cheap to heavily modify due to there being a lack of off-the-shelf upgrades for it. To get a sub 13 seconds run (without NOS) out of a VR-4 will cost something approaching £20,000.

However, that is not exactly what these cars are about, and perhaps a spin in one would be the way forward for you! There will be a good number at JapFest this weekend, if you happen to be going.

[StuartTheFish]

Thanks for the quick reply. I'm a bit disheartened now though, seems the family wagon disappointment is about to set in. Had my fun I guess.

Thought I could just do the induction kit, decat, exhaust, intercooler, colder grade plugs and up the boost a bit and it be somewhere near what I'm used to with it's larger capacity engine, mivec and twin turbos.

What sort of performance improvement would these light mods actually make then? Or would even these light mods start hampering reliability? For example, the MR2 comes out of the factory set up for 12psi, but can happily run at 18psi, and the standard ecu even has the proper tables for it. Is the galant already near it's limit before rebuilding?

[Nutter_John]

mivec where did you see that as mivec was never fitted to the 6a13tt

you will get 300-310 with those mods if your lucky , but unless the road you drive is a straight road the vr4 will be faster point to point .

[VR4Kaos]

Hi all, I like my fast japanese cars and currently have an MR2 turbo, though with the arrival of my baby boy it's now getting used less and less which I'm gutted about. I'm considering a couple of cars I could replace it with, one of which is an ST205 celica GT4 as I already know the engine, though I don't have the budget to take it much over 300bhp. Since I'm already used to about that power in my MR2, the addition of 4wd and the celica's extra weight will just cripple it. Another option would be an evo IV, V or VI, but again my budget is an issue and doubt I'd have enough funds to insure and maintain it properly. I also thought about an S15 turbo but they're a bit out of my price range. So are supras, and can't be very practical getting kids in the back of it! I'd love a skyline at some point too, but again that isn't going to happen any time soon. So now I'm here. I've always liked the look of the 8th generation galant, in fact the only 4 door car I like the look of apart from the evo's mentioned above, so it might be time for a VR4 soon.

I have a few questions though, like what are they like to insure, maintain and fuel? Are there still good examples out there to buy? Are there any versions that are better than others? Better spec from a certain year for example? Are they expensive to modify? I'd only really be able to afford breathing, EBC, etc, don't have the budget for rebuilds or my MR2 would be considerably quicker by now!

What's their performance like? 0-60 after these light mods for example. Not for pub bragging rights, I just love the acceleration and don't want my next car to be a downgrade. I always get a car quicker than my last, and my current one was able to do 0-60 in 4.5 seconds and the 1/4 mile in 13 flat before I fitted the EBC. How well does the VR4 respond to light mods like I've mentioned? Would it be able to put a smile on my face after having the MR2? I hope something relatively affordable can, as the wife's mazda 2 sport doesn't really hit the spot the same way!

thats an effin' quick mr2 mate if you want to get somthing as quick get an evo or skyline

[AlanDITD]

if you try to push an MR2 like you can a VR4 you would spend more of time in a ditch...

[StuartTheFish]

I thought some got mivec? Oh well. Thing is, I love straight line acceleration as well as the twisties, so I don't really want to have to compromise just for the extra seats in the back. Might end up having to though I suppose.

300-310bhp is lower than I'd expected since don't these cars have 276bhp when standard anyway? Are they already close to the limit of their standard internals then? The 4wd would hold it back too of course, and I expect the galant is quite a heavy car!

I'll still have a look at a few, but I suppose a lexus IS300 with a supra twin turbo lump might still do the trick if I decide against a galant. Bloody kids, might just strap a deckchair to the MR2's engine lid and have done with it!

And my MR2's actually not all that quick as far as MR2's go, that's just how the tubro models are anyway. Mine only has the same light mods I mentioned above. Induction kit, decat, exhaust, intercooler, colder grade plugs, and an EBC set at 18psi. And those times were made before I'd even fitted the EBC! There are some out there with power ranging from 400nhp to 900bhp!

As for ending up in a ditch, if you drive them with respect they're perfectly safe at speed. They got a lot of bad press thanks to the earliest mk2's geometry setup., but the later ones like mine were revised to now it understeers way before you cross the limit. Bear in mind this was my first RWD car, first turbo too for that matter, yet three years on I'm still here with no incident! Shame I might have to get rid really...

[AlanDITD]

Sorry i didnt mean MR2's were bad just the limit is much higher with the VR4's...

The internals are fine for alot more power on these, its the tubs that cant flow enough air...so bigger tubs = new manifolds which = custom made etc etc it gets pricey

[StuartTheFish]

No problem mate, I know an intelligent 4wd system and AYC will make a far more predictable car that can be chucked about harder before letting go.

So is there not plenty of turbo and manifold kits in japan or the US then? Are any aftermarket bits for the 3000GT interchangable, or are they like hens teeth too?

[aboo]

Hi & welcome to CVR4.

Once you have done the easy mods. Zorst, air filter, intercooler & boost thats about it. Remap for the ECU is on the cards soon.

If your wanting bigger turbos then your looking at a lot of money.

[Kieran]

So is there not plenty of turbo and manifold kits in japan or the US then? Are any aftermarket bits for the 3000GT interchangable, or are they like hens teeth too?

No to both - There's nothing 'off the shelf' at the moment and the 3000GT uses the 6G72TT - There's nothing that's interchangeable, which is a shame as some of the US GTOs are knocking out silly bhp levels.

Mind you, there's a few GTOs over here with equally scary power outputs, eh Ben!

[AlanDITD]

No problem mate, I know an intelligent 4wd system and AYC will make a far more predictable car that can be chucked about harder before letting go.

So is there not plenty of turbo and manifold kits in japan or the US then? Are any aftermarket bits for the 3000GT interchangable, or are they like hens teeth too?

FYI its perm 4x4 no magical jiggery pokery other than the AYC

[lancerevo3]

just buy a vr4 and be done with the midship runabout,lol
you wouldnt think your in a big car when throwing these down a back road.
wouldnt fancy trying the same in lexus with a tt engine.

[Kieran]

Stuart - I've just re-read your original post and I spotted this

Another option would be an evo IV, V or VI, but again my budget is an issue and doubt I'd have enough funds to insure and maintain it properly.

If that's the case - A VR-4 is not the car for you. If you want to stick with a Galant though, the 2.0GLS, the V6-24 and the Galant sports (2.0 and 2.5V6) offer a lot of the VR-4 package in a much more vice-free format, if you can live without 4WD and boost.

wouldnt fancy trying the same in lexus with a tt engine.

I've been in a Toyota Soarer TT as a passenger with a loony whizzing down some back roads. I must admit - I was terrified we were going to end up with a shortage of driver talent and an excess of wall/hedge/ditch...

[lancerevo3]

had the same thing happen with a friend in a supra,lucky for me i told him relax
as a week later he went through a ditch in reverse.
stuart you should go and drive as many jap turbos as you can first ,or maybe a cheap diesel and keep mr2 also

[Turbo_Steve]

From the sound of things, Stuart, not much is going to measure up to the MR-2 for you. They are pretty awesome

I bought a VR4 as a family car and it was really very good as long as you keep the milage down: with a few light mods it's "brisk" rather than quick (faster than than MR2 turbo in standard trim, but not epic). however down a windy road it'll really move.

What you need to ask yourself is whether you really need a family car that will do that, as it will rape your wallet if you cover a lot of miles - I came from a highly tuned 300ZX, and have been continually shocked by how much a standard VR4 will use: it's got very small turbos as standard, and consequently is on boost a lot of the time.

It's best to think of it as having a 4.0L NA engine rather than a 2.5L turbo, as it pretty much behaves like one.

[crazyken76]

i cant see any differance in petrol costs as i had a celica gt4 and it was about the same as the vr4 o and the vr4 is much faster than me celica

[StuartTheFish]

Stuart - I've just re-read your original post and I spotted this



If that's the case - A VR-4 is not the car for you.

Any reasons for this? Is the insurance and maintenance costs pretty much as bad as an evo? The MR2 is cheap as chips to insure and maintain. I already service the MR2 every 3 or 4 thousand miles, but I don't have AYC to maintain, or have a price hike just because it's for an evo. Are VR4 bits just as expensive as evo bits? Are they unreliable at all? Fuelling doesn't seem to be that expensive, as while looking around on here it seems they do about the same MPG as my MR2. I assume like my MR2 these VR4's can only run on super unleaded too?

And any galant less than the VR4 certainly won't do for me, I'd hate not having the one I'd originally wanted, it's bad enough considering getting rid of my MR2 in the first place. If the VR4 is already going to be slower than my current car, a non turbo will be very disappointing indeed. If I was staying N/A, I'd probably end up going back to honda VTECs if anything.

I really would want a family car that can tick all the boxes for me and still be able to really shift if the mood took me, as I hate having to leave my MR2 collecting dust. At the moment it's literally just getting used for me going to work and back during rush hour, as I can't use it for anything else without leaving my wife and baby at home. Not really the life a 300bhp mid engined sports car should have IMO.

I'll have to see if I can blag a passenger ride or something I guess, to see if they're able to scratch my itch after all...

Are any members on here near Harrogate? I know there's a white galant VR4 with white volk TE37's in town somewhere, also spotted a grey one and a legnum VR4 or two as well. Might have to see if I can collar one and blag a lift.

Steve, if the turbos are indeed as small as you say, do you even feel it coming on boost? The 4wd will dampen the effect anyway, but if there's next to no surge of power anyway then I doubt it'd keep me happy for long, which is a shame. I always kind of assumed having a 2.5 V6 with twin turbos would have lots of potential at a fairly affordable price, never realised modding one would work out very expensive, as it sounds like a standard one just wouldn't cut it for me, unless I finally accept that I have to let the quest for speed and acceleration go and just get on with getting a family car...

CrazyKen, can you describe the difference in performance between your legnum and the GT4 please? Was your GT4 an st205 with the higher power output, chargecooler, etc? As a friend of mine used to have an st185 and they were indeed quite sluggish in standard-ish guise.

How heavy are the galant VR4's by the way? Much scope for any weight loss? I always assumed they'd be quite heavy.

[Beastlee]

I've spent a fair amount on mine, you can see the mods in my signature, and I'm probably around the 300bhp mark. Certainly adding an EBC makes a huge difference to the feel of the car but there's still no peak in the boost. The power is just there almost instantly and stays there till 5500RM. The only time I ever feel underwhelmed is above 110mph where they tend not to accelerate as quickly but in the Uk that's not so much an issue as on the Autobahns. I know I can outrun a 325 up to 140 but the MR2 G3 Turbo that I raced from Roermond kicked my ass big time! He was running 350bhp+ in a car that probably weighs half what my VR4 does (1550kg).

[lancerevo3]

time to get a spin in one i think stuart and put your mind at ease..