Four wheel alignment query...

[apeman69]

I'm having the rack ends and tie rod ends replaced this week and will need a wheel alignment after this.
My car has 17 inch Evo 8 wheels with Falken ZE 912 - 225/45R17 tyres on.
The suspension has been lowered with HKS SuperForm lowering springs, dropping the front 40mm and the back 30mm.
I have attached the alignment settings that I have found on here (from a few years ago).
I intend to inflate the tyres to 36 PSI all round prior to alignment.
I've never had a 4 wheel alignment done before so I know hardly anything about the process.
My questions are:-
1) Are the settings here appropriate for my setup?
2) If they are not then will the operative be able to use them as a guide and take my setup into account to get a good result?
3) Is there anything else I need to consider prior to the alignment being done?
4) Am I just worrying about nothing?

Thanks folks.

[elnevio]

The rear camber can't be readily adjusted, and the lowering will probably mean that it might be out a little bit (additional wear on the inside edges of the tyres). Gly (IIRC) fitted a rear camber adjustment kit (i.e. some spacing to bring the camber back within tolerance when lowered) - there's an article knocking around on it.

[White Lightning]

My questions are:-
1) Are the settings here appropriate for my setup?
2) If they are not then will the operative be able to use them as a guide and take my setup into account to get a good result?
3) Is there anything else I need to consider prior to the alignment being done?
4) Am I just worrying about nothing?

Thanks folks.

1). Yes but you will most likely find that the camber is out of spec because the car is lowered.
2). They can be used as a guide, yes. But the only things that are 'easily' adjustable on a VR-4 is the front and rear toe.
3). You should decide how much toe you want. You can run slight toe in, straight or slight toe out on the front and toe in or straight on the rear. I like a slight toe in front and rear as that improves the handling but the flip side is that it increases tyre wear.
4). No, all good questions

[apeman69]

Thanks for the speedy replies gents.
So, as long as the caster and camber are within the specified range (though this may not be the case because of lowering) then it should be OK and I can tell him how I want the toe.
If I'm happy with the handling as it is (unknown alignment at the minute) and, as I drive like a granddad on a sunday jaunt, then having the toe set to straight will mean less overall tyre wear... perhaps.
If the camber is out, causing inside tyre wear, wouldn't setting the toe straight or out counteract that to a degree? Anyway I'll leave all that to the dude who'll be doing it. At least now I have some idea of useable settings for my car that I can present and get a feel for whether the operative knows what he's doing.
Either way it should be better than the potential tyre-shredder that I'll have after the steering components have been changed.
Thanks again, chaps.

[ANTHONY]

if they can only adjust the front is there any point in getting 4 wheel alignment?

[Davezj]

point 3 above, this is my take on what is going on in the rear.

it does change the rear toe as you corner/load up the rear suspension (i have never seen anything adjustable when i have look at it).
as you load the rear suspension the back of the rear wheel will move inwards slightly, due to the toe control arm being a fixed legth at the rear of the rear hub carrier. so as the hub carrier moves upward the actual distance from the start of the control arm to the end shortens due to the arch it travels.
and so the rear of the car kind of slides round the corner rather than the rear wheel turning in.

which seem wrong but that is the way i see it from the rear suspension design.

anyway i will find out for definite soon when i fit my adjustable coilover. with the shock and spring removed i will be able to move the hub up and down at will and see what actually happens.

the front susension is a work of art (if not a bit frail) when you move it quickly from lock to lock, and see the compound arch of the hub turning and sweeping forward as you turn the wheel.

[apeman69]

The toe on the rear can be adjusted and it may be worthwhile changing this. Until it gets on the machine who knows how it's set up?
I'd have thought it would make sense on a 4 wheel drive car to have the front and rear similarly set up as far as can be achieved.

[Davezj]

The toe on the rear can be adjusted and it may be worthwhile changing this. Until it gets on the machine who knows how it's set up?
I'd have thought it would make sense on a 4 wheel drive car to have the front and rear similarly set up as far as can be achieved.

where, what, how is it adjusted.

i have not seen any kind of adjustment on any of the arms. which arm adjust.

[White Lightning]

Personally, on the VR-4s, I have always had the front and rear toe set up as close as possible identical.

[White Lightning]

where, what, how is it adjusted.

i have not seen any kind of adjustment on any of the arms. which arm adjust.

Dave, it is adjusted on the inner fixing on the rear toe control arms. There is an off centric fixing that can be adjusted.

[ANTHONY]

i will still get mine four wheel aligned when i fit my springs, just wondered what are the main benefits

[White Lightning]

i will still get mine four wheel aligned when i fit my springs, just wondered what are the main benefits

In my opinion, on a high performance car like a VR-4 (and an Evo) the four wheel alignment should be checked regularly as this is the best way to optimise handling and could improve tyre wear

[Davezj]

Dave, it is adjusted on the inner fixing on the rear toe control arms. There is an off centric fixing that can be adjusted.

i must look harder next time i an under the car.
so what do you adjust/undo.

so it is the bolt that goes through the inner end of the arm. that adjust the toe. can't say i have ever noticed it.

i will amend my previous post so not to confuse anyone in the future. i edited post number 6 to make the thread more coherent.

[White Lightning]

so what do you adjust?

It's hard to explain, but it's an off centric bolt that by being turned changes the toe. It makes sense when you have taken it apart.

[Davezj]

oh, is it the joint between the actual arm and the bar that runs through it, the one that the bolt goes through it. i there a sort of cam in the bar that when you rotate the bar the arm moves out and in.

that would make sense, and explain why have never noticed it. and why when i asked for a 4 wheel alignment i was told there was nothing adjustable on the rear of the car.

arrange these words in to a sentence

day, learn, every, new, something.

nice one, take my hat off to you both, it's a Panama.

[John TheAntique]

Here's my last one if it's any help.

[giblet]

Glad this thread popped up. Got my car booked in for a full 4 wheel alignment tomorrow. Hopefully it will sort the handling as its seemed quite skittish recently

[apeman69]

Here's my last one if it's any help.

Cheers John, every little helps.

[Kitty's VR4]

Factory Settings as translated from the Japanese Service Manual

Wheel Alignment Specifications


VR4 Front Suspension Alignment Specifications

Toe In = 0mm ± 3mm

Camber = 0°00' ± 30' (difference left to right to be within 30')

Caster = 4°20' ± 1'-30' (difference left to right to be within 30')

Side Slip = ± 0mm-3mm

Upper Ball Joint rotary starting torque = 0.3Nm - 1.5Nm

Compression Lower Arm Ball Joint rotary starting torque = 0.5Nm - 2.5Nm

Lateral Lower Arm Ball Joint rotary starting torque = Below 1.5Nm

Stabilizer Link Ball Joint rotary starting torque = 0.5Nm - 1.5Nm



VR4 Rear Suspension Alignment Specifications

Toe In = 3mm ± 3mm

Camber = -1°00' ± 30' (difference left to right to be within 30')

Trust Angular = 0°00' to ± 9'

Toe Rocker Arm Ball Joint rotary torque = 1.0Nm - 2.6Nm

Stabilizer Link Ball Joint rotary torque = 0.5Nm - 1.5nm


The above, are settings from the factory, if your car has been lowered then these figures have to be slightly tweaked to suit your mod's, but your alignment shop can use these setting as a reference to start with!!

[apeman69]

Meeoooowww! Thanks Kitty.