To LPG or not to LPG ? This is the Question.. ?

[Wodjno]

Well reading plenty of info ofn LPG conversions and listening to members on the forum who have got or had an LPG conversion on there cars.. I am really considering this for the VR4.
I have seen prices quoted on here of approx £1500 + VAT. Which looking at the average MPG for the VR4's hooked up on Fuelly. An average of 10000 miles a year means an LPG system would pay for itself within the 1st year for most members. Even less in alot of cases..

But looking around the Net, i have found prices for LPG conversions cheaper still.

http://www.professautogas.co.uk/?gclid=CO2y54PFiKMCFSCY2AodVBv3ZQ

6 cylinder LPG conversion: £1 100 (VAT included)

http://www.picketpiece.com/prices.htm?gclid=CLebj5jHiKMCFVFd4wod7A-bMQ

A 6 cylinder vehicle would cost £1300.00 + V.A.T.

http://www.capitalautogas.com/ourprices.html
6

cylinder LPG converision £1,399

(£1,644)


http://www.lpgconversionservices.co.uk/prices.html

6 cylinders engine from £1245+ VAT

So given the cheapest 1 of these, it could possibly pay for itself in 6 months given some of the Low MPG's i am seeing on Fuelly.. Which means it's putting money back in your pocket every fill up after that

So what are peoples thoughts ?

Cheers

Wodj

[peter thomson]

Most of those quotes won't take into account the power of our cars and the fact we may need larger injectors and a system that runs at a higher pressure as far as i know. Best thing is to go with a company that have converted turbocharged cars with a good rep

[Wodjno]

Most of those quotes won't take into account the power of our cars and the fact we may need larger injectors and a system that runs at a higher pressure as far as i know. Best thing is to go with a company that have converted turbocharged cars with a good rep

Information noted Thankyou Peter


Cheers

Wodj

[paulg23]

Make sure the pressure reducer has a high enough pressure output for a turbo engine. The one I am fitting can run at around 50 psi. The injectors all seem to be the same but there is a brass outlet with a 'jet' in it which has to be drilled to suit the engine horsepower.

Hopefully have mine up and running in a week or two.

[Nutter_John]

Just selected one of you links at random wodj and you also need to add servicing costs of the LPG system into your man maths , also if you run soley on LPG for a prolonged period your valve guides will start to wearing ( this has been seen on evo's ) as LPG os a dry system and does not lubricate like petrol does

But LPG does make sense on any vr4 doing over 10,000 per year in my view

[Wodjno]

Just selected one of you links at random wodj and you also need to add servicing costs of the LPG system into your man maths , also if you run soley on LPG for a prolonged period your valve guides will start to wearing ( this has been seen on evo's ) as LPG os a dry system and does not lubricate like petrol does

But LPG does make sense on any vr4 doing over 10,000 per year in my view

Cheers John..

I did see costs of servicing

And also saw Flash Lube, that does the very job of keeping the Valve stem and guides Lubed up
£180 and £18 every 8k..

Reason i've thinking about it is, we are thinking of maybe going down to a 1 car family. I go to work on the train amd use bike to get to the station so not need to have 2 cars anymore. Mrs Wodjies Alfa returns 39-40mpg round town and the VR4 is over 20mpg round town. So keeping the Alfa would cost around the same in Fuel costs, but it doesn't have the room the VR does.
So an LPG conversion seems to make sense.. ? well thats my thoughts

[foxdie]

I've often thought at doing an LPG conversion, but two questions still keep coming to mind;

1. Doesn't LPG wear engines out quicker? May be chinese whispers, but I'd like to know for sure
2. Does fitting LPG mean you can't tune / remap your car later on? Does it play nice with upped boost for example?

[Wodjno]

I've often thought at doing an LPG conversion, but two questions still keep coming to mind;

1. Doesn't LPG wear engines out quicker? May be chinese whispers, but I'd like to know for sure
2. Does fitting LPG mean you can't tune / remap your car later on? Does it play nice with upped boost for example?

All i can say is i been on a lot of forums rummaging around. And there peeps who have done in excess of 80k on LPG with no adverse affects. But others who have had a nightmare. At the end of the day it's like any modification i guess. It needs to be good quality, expertly fitted and maintained, and the car it's going on is known to be in good shape as well..
Everybody ups their boost or leans out there fuel! Both of these are wearing out the engine faster but nobody seems to mind
And !! Upping the boost doesn't save us money whilst killing our engine
But nobody seems to mind

Wodj

PS.. I nearly forgot.. Read of 600bhp RS6's running LPG with no adverse affects on the car or performance ..

[chris g]

Sounds like a good way to go...

Retain the VR-4, get economy...

[bradc]

I mainly like the idea of having an increased touring range of being able to fill up both lpg and petrol tanks and get 500-600 miles from a tank

Over here at least though LPG doesn't really make sense at all as our Petrol is still fairly cheap.

Are you sure LPG is a better option than running Alfa + VR-4?

[Wodjno]

I mainly like the idea of having an increased touring range of being able to fill up both lpg and petrol tanks and get 500-600 miles from a tank

Over here at least though LPG doesn't really make sense at all as our Petrol is still fairly cheap.

Are you sure LPG is a better option than running Alfa + VR-4?

2 x cars that can go wrong. 2 x insurance. 2 x car tax. 2 x MOT. 2 x servicing ?

[bradc]

True, but the servicing and potential problems won't be too different I would have thought as you'll still be doing a similar amount of total KM's.

[Wodjno]

True, but the servicing and potential problems won't be too different I would have thought as you'll still be doing a similar amount of total KM's.

Still insurance, Tax and MOT..

If we did 6k in the Alfa and 4k in the VR4, at an average of 40mpg and 20mpg respectively.
Alfa: £810 pa Disiesel
VR4: £1080 pa Petrol
Total: £1890 pa



VR4 then averaging 20mpg x 10k pa on LPG

VR4: £1350

Difference: £540 + £300ins + £200Tax + £100 ? MOT = £1140

Thats based on 10k I'm pretty sure we do more than that..

[chris g]

The figures cannot lie...

That's a good saving...

[Wodjno]

The figures cannot lie...

That's a good saving...

£1140 is nearly a week in the sun (And no not the news paper)

[Wodjno]

I've often thought at doing an LPG conversion, but two questions still keep coming to mind;

1. Doesn't LPG wear engines out quicker? May be chinese whispers, but I'd like to know for sure
2. Does fitting LPG mean you can't tune / remap your car later on? Does it play nice with upped boost for example?

Some of the cars that 1 of the LPG fitters in the links have done.

http://www.professautogas.co.uk/gall...merc-s500.html

http://www.professautogas.co.uk/gallery-01-audi.html



http://www.professautogas.co.uk/gallery-13-audi.html

http://www.professautogas.co.uk/gallery-02-bmw.html

http://www.professautogas.co.uk/gall...discovery.html

http://www.professautogas.co.uk/gall...ar-s-type.html

http://www.professautogas.co.uk/gall...aguar-jx8.html

http://www.professautogas.co.uk/gallery-06-jeep.html

http://www.professautogas.co.uk/gall...sanstagea.html

http://www.professautogas.co.uk/gall...06-estate.html

http://www.professautogas.co.uk/gall...-rr-sport.html

http://www.professautogas.co.uk/gall...-rr-vogue.html

http://www.professautogas.co.uk/gall...-rr-vogue.html

http://www.professautogas.co.uk/gall...vectra-98.html

http://www.professautogas.co.uk/gall...-chrysler.html

http://www.professautogas.co.uk/gallery-17-honda.html

http://www.professautogas.co.uk/gall...chevrolet.html

[andyleaves]

If they can do it with a Stagea, then they must be able to do it with ours...
However bear in mind that the Stagea is meant to be more tuneable!!!!

I like the idea of better eco, but I think I might wait until someone else has the guts to do it first!!!

Will it not make a difference to the power output?

[Wodjno]

I like the idea of better eco, but I think I might wait until someone else has the guts to do it first!!!

Will it not make a difference to the power output?

It has already been done on VR4..

Csaba has it fitted to his.. Zedy1(Mo) had it fitted also. I think there has been a couple more also..

Some say theres a small power drop. Some say theres no difference.
Maybe with cars that are mean't to run on 100ron like VR4's and most other Jap Spec cars the difference is negligible. As LPG is 108 octane. So it may be slightly lower on power output, But as it's running a higher octane it's running much more efficient. So maybe the difference isn't noticeble..
There must be a way to switch it to Petrol thogh for people who are worried about running it with higher power and mods. I did read on older system that you just hit a button to switch it over. But also i read that it can laso be done with the more upto date pieces of kit via the LPG ECU..

[swinks]

Seems that you are very tempted Glenn.

Well, I had some experience with LPG systems. My first Lancia Delta HPi was with LPG (2ng gen). Also my parents neighbour has LPG garage and we spent a lots of beer time chatting over lpg advantages and disadvantages.
Overall, if you doing 10k+ miles over year, then go for it.
All rumors about lpg ruins engines etc. are bollocks nowadays. It was with old 1st gen systems. Now you will get quite sophisticated 5th gen system or 6th gen (liquid phase).
There few important points you must demand clear answers from garage:
1. garage installing lpg must be aware of installation to turbocharged car, like somebody mentioned before, manifold pressure matters, hence different set up for n/a cars and turbo ones.
2. servicing lpg injectors - go for high quality one, like everywhere, there are cheap crap ones and quality ones
3. separate ecu for lpg

And finally, maybe it will sound rud, but I have no good view about lpg garages and culture here in UK. Sorry, but Brittons are 10 years back in time. Have seen few lpg setups made by UK garages and... such amateur quality of work I haven't seen in any of PL Galant owners car.
I would recommend to have a meet with adaxo or jkrzysztof80 before and check very careful their set-up and layout. Then you will know what to demand of garage fitting your lpg.

John, that issue with drying system. It's either owner neglect or old generation lpg system. Haven't heard of such problem along 3kGT or few Evo 4 owners in PL with converted lpg. Different oils designed for lpg systems and range of spark plugs, etc.

[Wodjno]

Seems that you are very tempted Glenn.

Well, I had some experience with LPG systems. My first Lancia Delta HPi was with LPG (2ng gen). Also my parents neighbour has LPG garage and we spent a lots of beer time chatting over lpg advantages and disadvantages.
Overall, if you doing 10k+ miles over year, then go for it.
All rumors about lpg ruins engines etc. are bollocks nowadays. It was with old 1st gen systems. Now you will get quite sophisticated 5th gen system or 6th gen (liquid phase).
There few important points you must demand clear answers from garage:
1. garage installing lpg must be aware of installation to turbocharged car, like somebody mentioned before, manifold pressure matters, hence different set up for n/a cars and turbo ones.
2. servicing lpg injectors - go for high quality one, like everywhere, there are cheap crap ones and quality ones
3. separate ecu for lpg

And finally, maybe it will sound rud, but I have no good view about lpg garages and culture here in UK. Sorry, but Brittons are 10 years back in time. Have seen few lpg setups made by UK garages and... such amateur quality of work I haven't seen in any of PL Galant owners car.
I would recommend to have a meet with adaxo or jkrzysztof80 before and check very careful their set-up and layout. Then you will know what to demand of garage fitting your lpg.

John, that issue with drying system. It's either owner neglect or old generation lpg system. Haven't heard of such problem along 3kGT or few Evo 4 owners in PL with converted lpg. Different oils designed for lpg systems and range of spark plugs, etc.

Thanx for that Tomasz Very much appreciated.
I did just find another thread on LPG here on the club with plenty of input from you also Rep on it's way

As for not very good views on LPG in England

But i think the 1 place i was looking at, i think is owned and run by Polish

This 1: http://www.professautogas.co.uk/?gcl...FSCY2AodVBv3ZQ