bleeding brakes

[galantnight]

@NickMan it is leaking from the pipe end at the top not the hose end
Comes out of the top nut, is there meant to be a washer on that end or is just compression that seals it.
Hope this makes sense done on iphone and no glasses lol

[galantnight]

[Nick Mann]

No washer at that end, there is a taper on the nut and pipe that should seal.

[galantnight]

No washer at that end, there is a taper on the nut and pipe that should seal.

Thanks for the reply Nick,But what do i do when it does not seal??.

Could it be that the the replacement hoses (second hand) came from a car that was a PFL and mines a FL,sightly different threads or taper maybe ??

I may have to put the original ones back on and see if it seals if it does leave like that and if it don't can i change just the ends.

If i need to change the ends i will find a garage to do it i think if they have done them before it won't be that hard.

What do you think ??

[galantnight]

[galantnight]

just found this............... anybody had the same ???????????????????????
Original Poster:
1,104 posts
112 months
[report][news]Thursday 18th December 2008quotequote all
having a bit of grief with the new goodridge brake hoses - the new unions have a different taper and don't want to seal properly to the copper brake pipes.

I thouht about annealing the ends of the copper pipes to soften them before bolting up, but has anyone any other less drastic tips?

I'm at my wits end with this! Help!

Schmo
Ribol

9,275 posts
158 months
[report][news]Thursday 18th December 2008quotequote all
If the new brake hoses won't sit "tight" on the old copper pipes flares the only answer is to renew the copper pipes.

The new ones won't be already compressed and will fit to your new hose unions.
That Daddy

13,102 posts
121 months
[report][news]Friday 19th December 2008quotequote all
Not come across this one before and i have fitted two Chims with Goodridge sets,but i am afraid its as Ribol said reflare the pipes you should have enough pipe to be able to do this in situ anyway wink
schmokin1

Original Poster:
1,104 posts
112 months
[report][news]Friday 19th December 2008quotequote all
looks like I'm off to buy a pipe flaring kit then but no way I'll be able to get in there at the rears to do it in place, there's just not the room frown

oh well, at least the garage is up to a heady 10 degrees C so it's a bit nicer to work in there compared to last week which was bloody freezing!
Ribol

9,275 posts
158 months
[report][news]Friday 19th December 2008quotequote all
schmokin1 said:
looks like I'm off to buy a pipe flaring kit then but no way I'll be able to get in there at the rears to do it in place, there's just not the room frown

oh well, at least the garage is up to a heady 10 degrees C so it's a bit nicer to work in there compared to last week which was bloody freezing!
Some OE pipes won't re-flare(if there is such a word) they are too hard.

The after market copper pipe however is easy to do in the unlikely event you have the space to get in there to do it.
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schmokin1

Original Poster:
1,104 posts
112 months
[report][news]Friday 19th December 2008quotequote all
Ribol said:
schmokin1 said:
looks like I'm off to buy a pipe flaring kit then but no way I'll be able to get in there at the rears to do it in place, there's just not the room frown

oh well, at least the garage is up to a heady 10 degrees C so it's a bit nicer to work in there compared to last week which was bloody freezing!
Some OE pipes won't re-flare(if there is such a word) they are too hard.

The after market copper pipe however is easy to do in the unlikely event you have the space to get in there to do it.
i hear you. local friendly brake place did reflare one of the brake master cyl to bulkhead union pipes a while back but I guess they probably have a beefier tool than the usual DIY jobs. This job is turning in to a pain in the hole and I only really did it for future proofing!!
HRG

63,200 posts
139 months
[report][news]Friday 19th December 2008quotequote all
You've probably bought the wrong fitment pipes I'm afraid. Either that or someone else has bodged the ends before you got the car.
Ribol

9,275 posts
158 months
[report][news]Friday 19th December 2008quotequote all
schmokin1 said:
Ribol said:
schmokin1 said:
looks like I'm off to buy a pipe flaring kit then but no way I'll be able to get in there at the rears to do it in place, there's just not the room frown

oh well, at least the garage is up to a heady 10 degrees C so it's a bit nicer to work in there compared to last week which was bloody freezing!
Some OE pipes won't re-flare(if there is such a word) they are too hard.

The after market copper pipe however is easy to do in the unlikely event you have the space to get in there to do it.
i hear you. local friendly brake place did reflare one of the brake master cyl to bulkhead union pipes a while back but I guess they probably have a beefier tool than the usual DIY jobs. This job is turning in to a pain in the hole and I only really did it for future proofing!!
Even a pro tool won't flare some OE pipes, too hard and they slip in the machine rather than flare.
We sometimes put strands of copper wire in with the pipe to stop it slipping if we HAD to get it done and that didn't always work.
Much easier to call it a day and make a new one up with aftermarket copper, you can re-use the pipe ends if stuck.
schmokin1

Original Poster:
1,104 posts
112 months
[report][news]Friday 19th December 2008quotequote all
HRG said:
You've probably bought the wrong fitment pipes I'm afraid. Either that or someone else has bodged the ends before you got the car.
no, the new hoses are genuine goodridge and the ones i took off are the originals - I had such a fight to get them off that there is no way they HADN'T been on there for 14 years! Looking at the goodridge fittings the profile of the taper in the inboard union is slightly diferent to the originals, although the thread and overall size is identical. I guess it would come under manufacturing tolerance......

I'm a bit pissed off cos I normally try to match parts to an OE bit to save cash rather than go for the gold plated easy to source bit, but couldn't match the hoses so spanked the 50 notes on the braideds to save time. Now though I'm going to have to spank another 25 to 30 on top for copper pipe and a flare tool, plus just got back from the factor without the tool - he sold the one he has had on the shelf for years (dust outline round it!) last week. So I'm still no further forward and I've been on these damn pipes for 3 days now banghead
schmokin1

Original Poster:
1,104 posts
112 months
[report][news]Friday 19th December 2008quotequote all
Ribol said:
schmokin1 said:
Ribol said:
schmokin1 said:
looks like I'm off to buy a pipe flaring kit then but no way I'll be able to get in there at the rears to do it in place, there's just not the room frown

oh well, at least the garage is up to a heady 10 degrees C so it's a bit nicer to work in there compared to last week which was bloody freezing!
Some OE pipes won't re-flare(if there is such a word) they are too hard.

The after market copper pipe however is easy to do in the unlikely event you have the space to get in there to do it.
i hear you. local friendly brake place did reflare one of the brake master cyl to bulkhead union pipes a while back but I guess they probably have a beefier tool than the usual DIY jobs. This job is turning in to a pain in the hole and I only really did it for future proofing!!
Even a pro tool won't flare some OE pipes, too hard and they slip in the machine rather than flare.
We sometimes put strands of copper wire in with the pipe to stop it slipping if we HAD to get it done and that didn't always work.
Much easier to call it a day and make a new one up with aftermarket copper, you can re-use the pipe ends if stuck.
that's plan F but see above, now can't get hold of a flaring tool bangheadranting

I sure feel like the loser on this job.....
schmokin1

Original Poster:
1,104 posts
112 months
[report][news]Friday 19th December 2008quotequote all
BTW that daddy and ribol, do the cheap flaring tools work on do I need to go gucci on it, or take the old copper pipes off and go to the shop. I was hoping to have a go at doing it on the car as it looks a ballache to get the pipes off, esp the rears
HRG

63,200 posts
139 months
[report][news]Friday 19th December 2008quotequote all
I had all manner of fun and games as there's only a few degrees difference between JIC and metric.
spend

12,581 posts
151 months
[report][news]Friday 19th December 2008quotequote all
HRG said:
I had all manner of fun and games as there's only a few degrees difference between JIC and metric.
Sounds far more plausible an explanation, I wouldn't fart around buggering up the brake lines before trying another set of flex hoses that you are certain about. Manufacturing tolerances, wrong bins ... anything could be the cause (contrary to popular belief caveat emptor even applies to e-bay stuff!) wink
Ribol

9,275 posts
158 months
[report][news]Friday 19th December 2008quotequote all
schmokin1 said:
BTW that daddy and ribol, do the cheap flaring tools work on do I need to go gucci on it, or take the old copper pipes off and go to the shop. I was hoping to have a go at doing it on the car as it looks a ballache to get the pipes off, esp the rears
Cheap flaring tools do work ok with regular 3/16" soft copper brake pipe. However, some original brake pipes are very much harder and just about work with "Gucci" pipe flaring tools.

If you can do it without taking them off, great. But you may end up taking the pipe off and going to a motor factors/friendly garage(not someone like TD hehe) and asking them to copy it.
Failing that, buy a 25' roll of std 3/16" copper and a cheap flaring tool and DIY.

If it were a clutch pipe there are bodges that sometimes work but we are talking brakes.
That Daddy

13,102 posts
121 months
[report][news]Friday 19th December 2008quotequote all
Bloody cheek Ribol laugh exactly as you have described happens often to me too,but i think the TVR as copper/nickel pipes and they generally re-flare no problem,re-flaring the steel ones are usually a pain in the neck as you have mentioned already,oh yeh,by the way Ribol tongue outbiggrin

Edited by That Daddy on Friday 19th December 16:34

schmokin1

Original Poster:
1,104 posts
112 months
[report][news]Friday 19th December 2008quotequote all
ok after another struggle with my arm up the back end of the car (to think I wanted to be a vet once....biggrin) i got off the small S section of cunifer pipe to the rear offside and took it down the local brake/hydraulic specialist, with the old inboard hose union and the new goodridge.

Verdict is the goodridge is the correct fitting but the flares on the cunifers have been deformed by the OE unions which were poorer quality (bore is offset to centre and there is a flattened bit on the end of the taper), so they won't mate to the new unions.

So I am going to get the rear cunifers off to re-flare them and try to do the fronts in place as they will be a bd to get off as they wind so far round the engine bay. If they won't reflare then I'll get a roll of 3/16 cunifer and go for it myself.

Cheers for advice guys

Schmo
GreenV8S

23,471 posts
184 months
[report][news]Friday 19th December 2008quotequote all
Copper will be much much easier to work than cunifer, if you're planning to form the brake lines yourself.
Ribol

9,275 posts
158 months
[report][news]Friday 19th December 2008quotequote all
GreenV8S said:
Copper will be much much easier to work than cunifer, if you're planning to form the brake lines yourself.
yes
Ribol

9,275 posts
158 months
[report][news]Friday 19th December 2008quotequote all
schmokin1 said:
......try to do the fronts in place as they will be a bd to get off as they wind so far round the engine bay. If they won't reflare then I'll get a roll of 3/16 cunifer and go for it myself.
You probably already know this but just in case, you need to get a 100% square clean cut on the end of the pipe for you to stand a fair chance of getting a decent flare. A pipe/tube cutter is essential to do a good job, forget hacksaws etc.
Barkychoc

7,626 posts
104 months
[report][news]Friday 19th December 2008quotequote all
Ribol said:
You probably already know this but just in case, you need to get a 100% square clean cut on the end of the pipe for you to stand a fair chance of getting a decent flare. A pipe/tube cutter is essential to do a good job, forget hacksaws etc.
Definately - also if you use a hacksaw where have all the copper filings gone?
Get a small adjustable pipe cutter that you can gradually tighten up a bit at a time - don't be greedy and try to wind it in a lot in one go or it makes the end of the pipe taper in as it crushes it.
Wickes do one ---> http://www.wickes.co.uk/Plumbing-Tools/Mini-Tube-C...
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[Nick Mann]

We don't have copper pipes.

Is there some crud in the thread?

[galantnight]

We don't have copper pipes.

Is there some crud in the thread?

Nick that's what i thought but on both sides ??.

Could it be that the end of the pipe has a slightly different shape and they don't match up 100%and because they are steel

and to hard they won't reshape to fit ?? if you know what i mean.

I am going to take it apart again and check it anyway and take photo's of the ends.

BTW on the inside of my old pipe nut there is like a raised nipple in the centre but i don't recall seeing one on the new pipe,

could it be that the replacement pipes don't have this so don't seal 100%.

Anyway will check at weekend.

Many thanks for replys Nick

[galantnight]

Well I took it all apart and found that my thought that it was the end was right as i hope you can see from the photo ??
Took the goodridge hoses off and put back my old ones, next time i change something i will check that they are the same BEFORE i fit them.IMG_3335.jpg

[galantnight]

Nick that's what i thought but on both sides ??.

Could it be that the end of the pipe has a slightly different shape and they don't match up 100%and because they are steel

and to hard they won't reshape to fit ?? if you know what i mean.

I am going to take it apart again and check it anyway and take photo's of the ends.

BTW on the inside of my old pipe nut there is like a raised nipple in the centre but i don't recall seeing one on the new pipe,

could it be that the replacement pipes don't have this so don't seal 100%.

Anyway will check at weekend.

Many thanks for replys Nick

Is it me or did i post a question that had not been posted before ????