Moving forward with ECU FLash

[foxdie]

Good point.

And one thing these versioning systems typically allow is the ability to compare differences, and even "blame" someone for something

[Nutter_John]

Well playing devils advocate the current system does not imply that any of it has been tested , where as the system your suggesting is offering tested versions .

By the way I am not knocking the efforts that your trying to do , I am making sure that all understand what the risks are .

[Patryn999]

Sounds like you've used BitBucket before Scott, I dug a little but couldn't find out if a public repository (hence unlimited users) can have write restrictions. It'd pretty silly if that wasn't the case, but documentation stating that seems to be non-existant.


Yeah I understand the devils advocate position, but in any scenario we will always have to release things with an "at your own risk" clause. We're doing this not-for-profit, so we can't afford to do investigations on peoples bricked ECU's to determine whether or not it was our fault. Editing your ECU can be dangerous, and we will have to put a disclaimer somewhere stating that.

But we'll now make sure that we do put something in

[scott.mohekey]

Carl, what you can do here is have the development repository a private one, and have the public one frequently pulled from the private one.

[scott.mohekey]

Actually, you can define 'readers' and 'writers', people with read access and people with write access.

[Patryn999]

Was just thinking about the 5 user limit on private repo's. But then we're probably not likely to get 5 of us actually working on the definition file are we?

[scott.mohekey]

Well, with the discovery of readers and writers, it doesn't need to be a private repo.

[Patryn999]

Guess we wait for Scientist's (sorry dude, don't know your name) opinion and start putting something together in the way of original ROM's and base .xml's to start with?

[jasone]

if somebody tells me how to i will retrieve what you need from my car it's a 1997 auto. Willing to help if i can.

[Nutter_John]

There is nothing for you to retrieve Jason as yours is a 7201 and none flashable , the only option for 7201 is one of kinkyafros' and nutter_johns reflashed ecus

[Pugme]

as john knows, i have a spare 7203 for some reason out of my coty if that helps anyone!

[scientist]

All great suggestions as it creates a nice general location to obtain the roms + mods.

[taylor]

Been meaning to jump in here an comment.

Has anyone been able to get in contact with valmes and get a copy of his def file? I have compared his modded rom vs my stock rom, using the latest definition from ozvr4.

There is alot of defined address in the file however it is unknown as to what they do.

Comparing Valmes rom to mine I noticed a lot of the unkown address had been changed.

My experience with tuning is getting the Russian tune flashing it and using map tracer in Evo Scan tuning out the knock and with the assistance of a wideband tuning the AFR.

It is my goal to try and up the boost to 12-14psi on the factory solenoid.

Have many people used map tracer in conjunction with 2-byte load to tune their cars? it makes the process so much easier, I could get a fairly stable tune in under an hour I reckon.

Would it be worthwhile doing a quick write up on map-tracer/2byte and posting up the modded def files to get it to work in evoscan?

Sorry if thats a little off topic but Im all for jumping on the bandwagon to keep the whole tuning scene "open" as a lot of people put the hard yards in working on the def file but are reluctant to share due to a few people who decide to use their hard work to make money.

As I said above, if we had Valmes definition file I think that would be the best place to start, with the 7202 ecu, just my two cents anyway

[Nutter_John]

IIRC Vlames work is nearly 3 years old .

This map tracer are you doing it with an AFR gauge as well as the calculated load cell , or are you just tweaking and hoping .

When we tuned the 7201 images this was not done on a road it was done on a rolling road as we are in complated control of the load cell , you can also tell if the tweak you are making is good bad or indifferent . We are running at 17psi on the stock boost control and it holds around 12 psi by 6500 rpm .

A simple observation , how many people with 7202 / 7203 ecu's will actually do anything to them , they may neither have the skill nor the time to do anything. I can only think of one person in the UK that has used a 7202 to tune there car by Benh@Eurospec

[scott.mohekey]

There's already at least three people with 7202/3s here in Christchurch that have tuned them, as well as a good few in Australia. There will be another few here in Christchurch before long too.

[Nutter_John]

Ok Thanks Scott , so what xml defs did they use ? as surely they are now proven to work and have dyno results to back up there tunes

[scott.mohekey]

I can't comment on what def files they've been using. And as far as I know, no one here has yet done anything more than road tuning with a wideband. I believe some dyno tuning has occurred in Australia, and I know that we're planning a dyno day here towards the end of the year.

[Nutter_John]

Ok once again thanks Scott , so not to be condersending to the people who have tuned there cars using the xml defs all they have done is used there bum dyno's to say something is better or worse ? (being a devil's advocate here )

To pick up on a point Taylor made about keeping the whole tunning scene "open" , how does this play with the likes of the 7201 which we decided to do in a closed method so we could recoop the money we invested in gaining the knowledge , same goes if I spent £500 on a dyno getting all the info known for a 7202 should it be open ?

If you want to make the XML open source then you need to fund it's growth or people will turn round and keep the info to them selves , Hell I can fully understand why they would

[scott.mohekey]

I think what Taylor is aiming to do is get a group of people working together to develop an xml def file that covers most, if not all features of the roms. I know that you've done a lot of work to uncover this information for the 7201, and can understand you wanting to keep it closed, given how much money you spent on dyno time to get where you got to. That's not the only way to uncover the various tables etc available in the roms however. It's entirely possible to disassemble the code etc and take a more analytically driven approach rather than a test driven approach.

What I'm trying to get at here, is that the xml def file itself is what I THINK we're trying to fully define here, and we'd like to do it in as open manner as possible. We're not so much talking about getting working tunes for people to flash straight to their ECUs. Instead, we're looking at making it possible for people with the resources and knowledge to do their own tunes, to do so with a richer set of adjustable tables etc.

Sure, people will take the xml def file and do seat of the pants tuning, but that's totally within their rights. I agree, a proper dyno tune is far more sane.

Edit: Everywhere I've said Taylor, I mean Taylor, scientist, etc, etc..

[taylor]

IIRC Vlames work is nearly 3 years old .

This map tracer are you doing it with an AFR gauge as well as the calculated load cell , or are you just tweaking and hoping .

When we tuned the 7201 images this was not done on a road it was done on a rolling road as we are in complated control of the load cell , you can also tell if the tweak you are making is good bad or indifferent . We are running at 17psi on the stock boost control and it holds around 12 psi by 6500 rpm .

A simple observation , how many people with 7202 / 7203 ecu's will actually do anything to them , they may neither have the skill nor the time to do anything. I can only think of one person in the UK that has used a 7202 to tune there car by Benh@Eurospec

Its a 2byte load value, it from what I can tell is the the value the ECU uses to calculate load.

we have been tuning by using valmes maps and scaling them back to our gas in NZ, 98. this has been on the road but, we are going to tweak it on a rolling road.

By logging 2byte load and knock and RPM we can compared the logged knock and trace to where in the table it is knocking and pull the timing back a few degrees, so no, not change and prey, as from experience the Map tracing is damn near spot on.

As we are able to edit the maps in maptracer, it means that we are only using ecuflash for writing the rom to the ECU.

Theres no reason why you cant do this the opposite way of course, push the timing until you get knock and back off, but i like to know that Im scaling something I know works, and then can have more of a play on the Dyno.

I think being part of a club, that we all put in a little effort to benefit everyone else, and hope that by following ethics of being in a club, people dont screw us over, after all my own intentions are to write up my ways to get more and more people into tuning yourself, afterall the reason I joined CVR4 was so that i could get information and help to do all the work on my car myself.

I completely understand the need to recoup cost, but i feel there are other ways of doing this, and I hope that one day when you have broke even, and made a bit of money, you share some of the info you have gained, so that other, especially those on the other side of the world can benefit.