Should I use a Legnum engine in my project car instead....?

[Jesus-Ninja]

I'm having a change of heart about the engine choice in my project car.

A bit of background: Take an S14 (200sx) and take everything off the shell. Make a jig which picks up all the suspension points. Scrap the shell. Cut the jig down the middle and widen by 200mm. Build a spaceframe around the jig and put a transverse engine in the back.

I currently have a Saab 2.3 straight 4 with a TD04 installed, but haven't started plumbing or wiring it in. The engine choice was on a bit of a whim, as they are very strong and easy to get good power figures from, and the donor car was only £300.

I'm now wondering if it's "interesting" enough. It's also a fairly "tall" engine. So, I'm considering other options.

It needs to be able to sit transversely. 4 cyl long is probably the limit, so V8 is a no go, and besides, sourcing a box might be a challenge. But something like a VR4 (VR2?) engine may fit, although it's a bit wider across the block due to the V, it should be plenty short enough being 3.5 cyl long.

The appeal of using a VR4 lump is that I have another one in my daily, so it's familiar and parts can be swapped around if needed. The down side is that variety is the spice of life, and maybe it's better to not run the same lump in everything!

What sort of price does an engine and box go for? Any ideas on weights?

Or something else? GTO 3.0 V6?

[Nutter_John]

I have a vr4 engine with everything on it with a cambelt changed about 3500 miles ago

your looking at around 200 -> 220 kg for a vr4 engine and v6 gearbox

[Jesus-Ninja]

I have a vr4 engine with everything on it with a cambelt changed about 3500 miles ago

Oooh. £?

your looking at around 200 -> 220 kg for a vr4 engine and v6 gearbox

That's good to know. Is that fully dressed? Saab engine + box is about 250kgs, I think.

[foxdie]

Well, you know you're gonna get 300HP out of a 6A13TT these days with minor mods and a tune, is that gonna be enough?

[Jesus-Ninja]

Well, you know you're gonna get 300HP out of a 6A13TT these days with minor mods and a tune, is that gonna be enough?

For starters But will ultimately want 400+

[Gowf]

The engines weigh 190kg with no ancillaries. 400 is achievable, but as you know its not going to be cheap. Im using one in the rear of my golf longitudinally with a 4wd set up. I'm also thinking about putting one in a capri as the 2l pinto is just baws, and it will work out a lot cheaper than a BDA

[Jesus-Ninja]

The engines weigh 190kg with no ancillaries. 400 is achievable, but as you know its not going to be cheap. Im using one in the rear of my golf longitudinally with a 4wd set up. I'm also thinking about putting one in a capri as the 2l pinto is just baws, and it will work out a lot cheaper than a BDA

So that's an engine with no ancilliaries? So a box is going to be what, 50kgs? and then dressed, another 10? Hmm, puts it nearer 250kgs. Yeah, I know it won't be cheap, but then motoring rarely is these days! That's why I'm wondering if a transverse 3.0 GTO lump might be a better starting point, with more headroom for power?

What box are you running on the longitudinal set up in the rear of the golf, out of interest?

[Gowf]

MT75 4wd is what im using, can still use the same clutch then, just need a modified bell housing.

The GTO's are better for power (well, as long as you put bigger turbos on), but what you've got to bear in mind is that none of them made as much power as my VR4 engine did with td04 13G's! Not sure on the weight of them, but they are definitely bigger, and of course your gearbox would be on the otherside, so you'd need to source something different box wise (would be better weight distribution though)

[Jesus-Ninja]

MT75 4wd is what im using, can still use the same clutch then, just need a modified bell housing.

Oh, OK, so you're not taking the drive to the rear wheels straight from the box then, you're still running a separate diff with, presumably, a very short prop, and then running a longer prop from the xfer box up to the front? Interesting. Especially as you opted for the 2.5 rather than a bigger 3.0, even when starting from a blank canvass (ie you could have dropped anything in the back of a Golf and the work would have been similar, as opposed to keep a 2.5 in a vr4 or put something else in).

Weight is reasonably key, as I want to keep the whole thing below 850kgs, so maybe a 2.5 would be a better choice than a 3.0.

Didn't realise the GTO lumps ran the other way round. Not that it's a huge issue, as it's transverse, but at least with the 2.5, a V6 sport box will bolt straight on.

[Gowf]

kinda, the prop (as in out of the back of the gearbox) will go to the front, whereas the transfer prop will go to the rear. It does raise issues of directions of rotation with the diff, however this can be sorted out relatively easily with some gearing. Why a 2.5? Because I have a forged one, and its worthless if I sell it compared to what its cost to build. Thats why, otherwise who knows what would have been put in there!

[Jesus-Ninja]

It does raise issues of directions of rotation with the diff, however this can be sorted out relatively easily with some gearing.

Or just turn the diff upside down? Like folk do when running porsche G50 boxes in a mid engined set up. Honda S2000 engines run "backward", so maybe some diff options there?

[Jesus-Ninja]

Doh! Double post....

[Gowf]

Or just turn the diff upside down? Like folk do when running porsche G50 boxes in a mid engined set up. Honda S2000 engines run "backward", so maybe some diff options there?

I did think of this, but was assured by a man who has built many a 6R4 and has his own engineering company that its not a good idea as the bearings will not like it at all. As I said though theres ways and means

[Jesus-Ninja]

Personally I'd put more faith in an upside down diff that should be easy enough to replace, than in extra gearing which will be another link in the chain with it's own drag and maintenance, but then there are so many ways to skin cats!

I assume you're going for IRS as opposed to live axle?

[Gowf]

sure am, a live axle limits what I can use. But it will be double wishbone front and rear. Which does mean custom hubs, but then this was never meant to be cheap!

[Jesus-Ninja]

There should be plenty to pick from for suspension components. Plenty of off the shelf bits from the kit car suppliers. You could even raid the same Sierra your gearbox came from for the fronts - you can get "mushrooms" that slot in where the McPherson strut goes to give you the top pickup point. I can't remember if Sierras are multilink at the rear.