Group Buy: Cam regrinds ROUND 2 discussion

[Oblivion]

Im wondering if you had custom cams made rather than regrinds would you still need shims?

[AKKO]

At the cost custom billet cams costs most would hope not but I wouldn't be so sure. I guess the answer is it depends...?

[Adam.Findlay]

Im wondering if you had custom cams made rather than regrinds would you still need shims?

No billet cams are made so the base circle size remains the same as factory. where the regrind of course grinds material off to change the shape of the lobe to give more lift and duration. but as AKKO said billet cams will be much more expensive. ~2k NZD, however the advantage of going billet is you are not limited by how much you can "regrind" off the stock cams. you can put any profile your engine build requires.

I will post up here when I get back from holiday to work in early may what the shim sizes will need to be. but for now 0.5mm should about do it.
Remember guys our lifters are HYDRAULIC so they will either extend or compress past center. if the shim is too thick the lifter will just bleed down. if the gap is too big the lifter should pump up. Its not like a car with mechanical lifters where the shims have to be absolutely precise within a single thousandths of an inch. although I wouldnt go throwing any old fencing washers down under your lifters.
if any one has a standard cam they could measure the base circle on and someone who has an un-installed set of reground cams measure the base circle. compare the differences and divide by two to get the ammount removed from the radius of the base circle. then that will be roughly the size of shim needed.

hope this helps. and @AKKO and @swinks i have posted a spec sheet before but here it is again
Untitled.jpg

[swinks]

I will post up here when I get back from holiday to work in early may what the shim sizes will need to be. but for now 0.5mm should about do it.
Remember guys our lifters are HYDRAULIC so they will either extend or compress past center.

Exactly...

if the shim is too thick the lifter will just bleed down. if the gap is too big the lifter should pump up.

The issue is rather the later case with lifters not pumping enough oil.

if any one has a standard cam they could measure the base circle on and someone who has an un-installed set of reground cams measure the base circle. compare the differences and divide by two to get the ammount removed from the radius of the base circle. then that will be roughly the size of shim needed.

Hopefully will do some measures once get spare cam from Peter.

hope this helps. and @AKKO and @swinks i have posted a spec sheet before but here it is again

Missed somehow.
Will forward this chart to Ben, because I'm not such technically minded...
Shame, that I couldn't find any data regarding stock cams apart of basic info.

[AKKO]

The material the shim is to be made of May also be a factor impacting thickness from a durability perspective perhaps? ... any recommendations here,be they stainless or other?

[Adam.Findlay]

just plain steel will do. dont need anything fancy like stainless. it will just make it harder to machine the shims.

[swinks]

Anyone who makes shims, can you do extra 24 set for me?
Can't source right size "washers
But sourced quite good deal for brand new genuine Mitsi lifters

[AKKO]

Workshop is sourcing mine, at least that way they can't point the finger at me for supplying the wrong ones that way. ;-)

[swinks]

Workshop is sourcing mine, at least that way they can't point the finger at me for supplying the wrong ones that way. ;-)

Ohh... pretty please, can you let them know that you need 2 sets?
I'll pay via PayPal for them and shipping to UK.
Being fed up with trying source one over here, usually get message "too much effort to make one, not worth... etc.".
I getting to idea of purchase (make myself) hole puncher and 0.5mm sheet of steel...

[AKKO]

Will see they may already be on their way, otherwise perhaps try the link I posted earlier?

[AKKO]

Swink's did you ever get your shims installed, also which preference of lash adjuster did you go with and why?

[swinks]

Yes, I had shims fitted, but wasn't happy with them.
Anyway I did approach several minor issues that in the end gave me so big headache, that I did part out a vehicle
My findings were:
- the best lash adjusters (tappets) are NEW genuine Mitsubishi one. Get them from trusted place. All new tappets are already uprated by Mitsubishi and very tolerant for changing work conditions (i.e. oil grade, travel, etc.).
- shims, 0.5mm shims are IMO too thick, more likely 0.2mm are better, but again, now I would consider if they are really necessary with new genuine tappets. Also one school of fitting shims says that they should be fitted INSIDE tappets (underneath spring - change of spring pre-load), but I did fit my shims directly into tappets hole. Maybe I did wrong.

So, my conclusion is:
1. get the genuine NEW MITSUBISHI lash adjusters
2. get 0.2mm thick shims and keep them just in case you need them

Also, you won't need to change valve springs if you are not planning to rise rev limit or running stupig boost level above 1.5 bar. Whatever been said here, uprated springs with claimed camshaft lift is overkill for stock engine setting. Stock springs are enough.

[AKKO]

Thanks Tomasz for the response, appreciate it.

Was it yourself or someone else that also observed that there was a minor size difference between the genuine and uprated versions.
Not so much in the hole/flow but rather the height/length of the lifter itself?

Found it: http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthr...Lash-Adjusters

[AKKO]

Interesting, have just gone back over my receipts for the install of my cams at the workshop and Genuine lifters (MD376687) were used to create a tool for lining everything up however the lifters in my VR4 are not genuine they're ones from Meek so I'm curious if their measurements differ.

Combined with the shims it might explain some things depending on how the measurements were taken, the noise for one...

[swinks]

Thanks Tomasz for the response, appreciate it.

Was it yourself or someone else that also observed that there was a minor size difference between the genuine and uprated versions.

It's all about lifters from GDI engines being mistaken with lifters from 6A13TT engine. They are almost the same and difference is by fraction, by some sellers of aftermarket one they are advertised as the same one.

[jungle]

So after 2 years or so has anyone actually got dyno results??

[Adam.Findlay]

Yep.
My car made 214.5 kW at the wheels with a tune I did myself on 98RON pump gas
Another local galant made a hair more than mine did on 95RON pump gas but tuned professionally the gain pre and post tune was just over 80hp at the wheels gain at about 5k rpm
Jet150 (OZVR4) has a set but as you know thats still in the pipeline
Carls (Patryn999) galant has a set in also but he has twin 13T TD04L's that hasnt been dynoed yet but Ill be hassling him to get one done before we pull the engine out to put his new motor in.

[AKKO]

Hopefully I'm not to far away from revisiting the dyno again either, now with boost leak fixed (TB seals also being done) plus dumps and turbo intake piping (Thanks Trotty).

[adaxo]

@Adam.Findlay is there any dead line to order them? is this offer time limited? I'm still thinking of getting them as looks like they will do much improvement after td04 conversion but all funds are going to td04 now so I will need to wait some time, may at end of this year, not sure now.

[jungle]

Thanks Adam.
I was wondering if anyone had these with some TD04-13/15G. I have a set of hi flowed oems from Kinagawa I'm about to fit, but leaning towards td04's