Useless Brakes

[Dom B]

Not really a useful post here as the brakes have been done to death but why oh why did Mitsubishi release such a heavy and powerful car with such hopeless wooley brakes that can get you into a lot of trouble???? AArrrrrrrrggggghhhhhhhh!!

Roll on enough money to do the Brembo upgrade. There seems to be a difference of opinion as to weather to change the master cylinder for an evo 6 one but everybody agrees the bias valve needs changing?


Just a rant really.

[Gly]

dont change the bias valve, no need, its the same as the evo,

you only change the bias valve if you doing brembos on a non-turbo.

brakes will be fine on the stock master cylinder, but to me it never felt quite right, a bit spongy,
ive converted to the evo 5/6 1&1/16th inch master and it feels much better and firmer.

make sure the push rod to the master cylinder (if you change to the evo master) is adjusted correctly otherwise the brakes will just lock on and not release.

[Nick Mann]

I've always been happy with my Brembos just on the stock master cylinder. And I have just bought a replacement set of performance friction pads to go with the performance friction discs - well worth the investment if you can afford it.

[Twpsin]

I was running the Brembo's and AP Strap drives and have just fitted the D2 eight pot callipers, disk and pads as the kit cost £700 compared with a new pair of strap drive disks at £650 without the pads. As soon as they were bled hard peddle at the top compared with the soft peddle and longer travel with the brembos. It also from light driving appear to be a better set up what they would be like on the track with continued abuse I can not say

http://www.lancerregister.com/showth...ht=d2+calipers

[Louis]

What pads are you on at the mo??.
Many are using uprated pads with factory discs and getting good results.

(I am on PF discs and pads and it is the best set up I have tried, they are well worth it, but they are costly)

[Confused]

I am using stock, plain, undrilled, ungrooved discs from Camskill (or any motor factors!) and a set of Carbotech XP-8 pads - they really make the car feel like it can brake as well as it accelerates - standard pads are just plain dangerous in my opinion!!

Only downside to the Carbotech pads is the amount of brake dust they generate - stupendous amounts!

[Kenneth]

+1 for standard brakes being fine with better pads.

I have brembos on mine and they are likewise useless. The previous owner of the brakes had pads which don't work well until warmed up, which hardly ever happens in my car (light weight flywheel and clutch assembly = great engine braking)

[Davezj]

i have found that many peole do not maintain the standard brake setup correctly and the slide bolts can seize up if the wrong grease is used to lube them up. which stops the caliper sliding and only allows braking to take place on the inside pad.
i always had good standard PFL brake setup, i checked and regreased the slide bolts every 6 months. the only issue i had was brake fade on track but that was with redstuff pads.
so that was the reason for my brembo upgrade (i got tem cheap as well) and i have abused them ever since and brake fade for me, is a thing of the past.
good feel to.
although i do have a evo6 master cylinder waiting to go on at some point.

[ianb]

I am happy with carbotech pads and rossini discs, agreed dust is bad, should have had the wheels powder coated black !! Road only, not been on a track.

[Ryan]

I've used standard brakes with a variety of friction materials but am much happier with Brembos which in my experience, stop faster and withstand repeated braking a lot better.

[wintertidenz]

It depends what you use the car for as to how extreme you feel like going with the brake setup... I'm running standard calipers and Ferodo pads at the moment, and the car comes to a stop quite quickly if required - it'll probably work better once my calipers have been replaced or rebuilt along with discs.

[Nick Mann]

I fundamentally agree with most of the above.
Stock set up with very good pads and good fresh fluid is fine for 99% of the time. On track it could well show itself up. There is not much to be gained with Brembos on the road, imo, but under track conditions they perform well enough that tyres become the weak link.

[Anderz]

I agree that the stock setup works well with the right pads, with stock pads they are useless. My carbotech xp8 worked well on the track aswell, but they can be a bit noisy on the street if the brakes are not in good shape ie glides not properly lubricated. Going to put brembos on the VR and transfer the VR brakes to my NA V6. I assume it will brake well with vr-4 brakes and xp8 pads

[Dom B]

Well I have tried all sorts of standard pads, Brembo, Mitsubishi and even tried Blueprint ones just in case. I did have a piston sieze a while ago but took the calipers apart rehoned the bores and polished the pistons, relubricated them with rubber friendly seal grease and all nice and free, the sliders are good as I just had it all apart and regreased. I have put literally a gallon of brake fluid through the system to do a full fluid change and remove any air bubbles. The discs are standard. The pedal is so spongy and doesn't seem to do much. The most annoying thing is that it travels so far that it is not in line with the accelerator making pressing the throttle with the side of your foot almost impossible.

One thing I thought is How does the bias valve work? My old alfa used to have a spring that as the rear of the car unweights the spring releases some rear brake to avoid locking. the problem was as the sping got loose the rear brakes hardle did anything, a new spring and re calibrate the valve by dangling weights on the arm as you tighten the bolts and the rear brakes joined the party again and I had a lot more braking. Does the VR4 have anything like this that can need recalibrating?

I drive the car quite hard but not silly, a set of tyres typically last around 5-6000 miles. Going across the Milton keynes A421 or the Leighton Buzzard bypass the brakes are toast by about the 3rd roundabout.

[Wodjno]

Have Members forgot about this setup ?

http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthr...hlight=wilwood

When i eventually upgrade my calipers, it will be for something like the Wilwoods. Brand New calipers, Discs, Pads and Braided lines for a Tad over £600.. Seems a no brainer, compared to 2nd had calipers, that if they need seal kits and a good refurb, can get quite expensive. Also no need for Facelift Hub Carriers.

[Nick Mann]

If pedal travel is your issue, Brembos will not help.

If you pads are cooked after three roundabouts, then you have not got good enough pads, or your pads are not releasing from the discs properly.

My stock setup has been better than that on every VR4 I have owned! Although the brake pedal does travel a long way and take more force that other cars to brake the same. TBH I like that - I find most things have gone too far in driver assistance. I want feel and control, not breathe on the pedal and emergency stop!

[Dom B]

The pedal is always so soft with no feel, one hard fast slow down can virtually cook them and there is no bite at all. I even wondered if the servo was working at all. I had useless brakes on my alfa 155 and did a brembo conversion on that which was an improvement but never had the feel of a good road car.

While my Legnum has been off the road receiving a little TLC with a bit of a refurb my daily driver has been an 04 E46 320d (sorry I almost used the 'D' word shudder!!) However I have to admit that the brakes are simply epic even compared to my brembo set up on the alfa. It is not a light car and I drive it hard. Admittedly the brakes are pretty big anyway but the feel is great, pedal is good and I don't cook them despite driving hard and they are totally standard discs and pads.

[Dom B]

Are willwood calipers dust sealed against road dirt or are they race calipers? I had some superlights once that were no use for a road car at all due to the constant service needed having no dust seals.

[Louis]

Have you had the brake ABS recall done??, there was a recall re the brakes, there is a link somewhere where you can check your recall status, BUT, do the recall check on the Japanese mitsubishi site, there is a link on here somewhere I will try and find it.
The recall was to do with an accumulator (a tennis ball size sphere) attached to the ABS unit, (passenger side near the bulkhead). the sphere has hydrogen in it, and the issue was hydrogen getting into the brake fluid, making the pedal spongy with excessive travel, and basically failing to stop the car in an emergency stop.
Sounds Like you have done all the sensible things, changing the fluid and freeing the pistons etc.
I would second the XP8's, You could also try the Performance Friction Pads as they are cheaper than the carbotech ones, (not sure if PF do the size for standard vr4 but you can check.

[Dom B]

Yeah if you find that link Louis that would be great I have to say though that I don't remember any accumulator sphere on anything other than the ayc pump on my car. I used the recall site once before and it showed my car had the wishbone recall done. If you find the link then that would be a great help.

Cheers.