Lets think bigger turbos!

[ako]

I've seen that kit before - and THAT 6A12 looks nothing like any I've seen. Even looks like a single cam as well!

Mante is right - at the end of the day, its not exactly ground breaking modifications we're talking about here, and its far from rocket science.

For all the blithering on about worrying about runner lengths etc etc - at the end of the day, all you're looking to do is make a car with a lot more punch. Waiting an extra 100rpm to hit full boost is something you'll just never ever notice, and your pushing the proverbial uphill if you want it to keep driving exactly like factory. It can be done - but why worry about it? Nothing like a big wallop in the back from a decent sized huffer coming on boost. Plus it pays dividends in other areas - you can actually drive around OFF BOOST, which is damn near impossible on the stock setup.

At the end of the day - here's how I see it. If you're not going to go pushing your car THAT sky high in power, try and do what you can with what you have. Try high-flowing the turbos, freeing up all the restrictions, getting a decent ECU to crank the boost with - and enjoy the 350 - 400hp thats possible. If you're aiming for big power - just go large. Go overkill with the turbo, fuelling, the lot, if you can afford it. Once you get the power bug, you'll be kicking yourself if you spend a couple grand on a "mild upgrade" - when you could be getting your wagon into porsche turbo territory for not much more.

[AllBeItMine]

again i find myself grudgling agreeing with Mark. I reckon a turbo upgrade should be the last thing you should do to one of these cars. there is too much potential to be had from getting the most out of the standard turbos and i believe you should have all the support systems for a bigger turbo in place before you go ahead and stick it on.

[Mante]

For us at this point its the obvious...upgraded internals..alittle more displacement (yes I know I have left you guys in the dark but I want it to bet worth wild before I open my mouth on the displacment problem...sorry) helps with the low end grunt... the equation of "an additional 5% of displacemnt yields 7% of performance gains" keeps kicking my head... The myth *which was proven true by the guys at turbonetics* of having hte runners as short as possible to keep the pulses of heat as hot and close together to spin the turbine side of the turbo..

Allbeitmine: yes you do have to have a great supporting cast inorder to upgrade the turbo but lets be perfectly clear...how many Vr4 owners havent done that already.. if they havent they shouldnt even be speaking cause they would be "technically" slowing progress up with space filling babble... My 255lph fuel pump I can see already being worked to the max..maybe reinstalling a FPR will help but only time will tell.

Now Im still in the learning process, most of you already know BUT Im a quick learn... AKO, thanks for backing me I try to make as much sense as possible...usually that doesnt happen haha.

Now to make it perfectly clear having twin T25's would be nice but thats stock on the 300zx and we would end up loosing to just about any force inducted "modded" car...GT28's in my opinion would be almost perfect...yes new manifolds would be needed...but the idea of 680 hp is unmatched...especially with the space problems, unfortunatly they have integrated wastegates but hey nothings perfect.

At the present I dont expect anyone to lock themselves into a particular setup because we all are "treading lightly" but someone has to do it...much respect to FTOLTD for the single setup and breaking the mold..450hp is a wonderful thing!

[valmes]

2 Mante
"and looking at that package a single T25, well thats honestly less then what the 6a13 comes with."
I didn't mean you should get a whole setup(about "6a12 kit")... just the parts that make up custom exhaust manifold for single turbo setup... looks like it is for a T3(Garrett GT??) turbo flange. You have all the bits to make it up. Then mount any turbo you like.
I wouldn't think anybody would want to change twin TD03-8G to single T25... so I didn’t really see, the need, for any explanation.

Now as I've said before I like the idea of getting twin T3 60 setup... with each flowing 490-500 CFM. That should be enough for me.

2 Ako
"Even looks like a single cam as well!"
Hmm... how would manifolds on SOHC vs. DOHC V6 engine differ, if they are supplied in DIY form? Bended stainless steel tubes should fit all right to 6a1X engine and will make a good single turbo exhaust manifold.

"Waiting an extra 100rpm to hit full boost is something you'll just never ever notice"
Of course... but also you will never notice any performance gains... sizing turbos is not a rocket science, but does require some understanding. So it might turn out to be 1000-2000 or more extra rpms to get that punch. There is always a trade off in getting more power.

"At the end of the day - here's how I see it. "
And here is how I see it - I wouldn't be asking all those questions and going into such difficult and costly endeavor, such as getting new turbos and manifolds, if I were satisfied with my present setup.

"If you're aiming for big power - just go large. Go overkill with the turbo, fuelling, the lot, if you can afford it. Once you get the power bug, you'll be kicking yourself if you spend a couple grand on a "mild upgrade" - when you could be getting your wagon into porsche turbo territory for not much more."
"Overkill" - could be as bad as "mild upgrade". So I just want to plan ahead and get it right.

PS: If your aim is to give me "hard time", anytime I find and share some "good" (or lets just say "relevant") info - well go for it. English might not be my native language, but I will try to be as "clear" as I can.

[paulmc]

Valmes,

Keep posting the info, it is the only way we learn.

cheers

Paul

[Mante]

2 Mante

I didn't mean you should get a whole setup(about "6a12 kit")... just the parts that make up custom exhaust manifold for single turbo setup... looks like it is for a T3(Garrett GT??) turbo flange. You have all the bits to make it up. Then mount any turbo you like.
I wouldn't think anybody would want to change twin TD03-8G to single T25... so I didn’t really see, the need, for any explanation.

Now if you said that with the previous post I wouldnt have been misunderstood. AT that moment I thought you had dropped the twin t3 for that single T25, really left me speechless.. Now I understand

[landy]

English might not be my native language, but I will try to be as "clear" as I can.

Your English seems fine to me!

[Kieran]

PS: If your aim is to give me "hard time", anytime I find and share some "good" (or lets just say "relevant") info - well go for it. English might not be my native language, but I will try to be as "clear" as I can.

I agree with Paulmc and Landy here - I think the information you're digging up here is very interesting Valmes. And your English is frequently better than mine!

[ako]

Oh christ - I wasn't getting at you at all! I'm bloody impressed with what you're doing with your car, your one of the few people I know of doing up a 6A13 to a decent degree!

What I was referring to was some of the other arguments being brought up, like I said - if you have the funds, get the absolute best of everything you can.

If I could, for simplicities sake alone, I'd just be re-flanging and doing it the cheap way. If I had the funds, I'd be doing it like you are - getting every detail perfect. For now, I'm just going to make do with new downpipes, fuelling + pipework, should hopefully be enough to push me to the 350 hp ish range - I dont think the rods in the 6A12 are capable of much more than that anyway. Best of luck to ya man.

[valmes]

Money is a limited resource... so I also do want all the upgrades to be "cost efficient", in terms of getting power vs. spending “hard earned money”

I guess, people just place importance of each upgrade in a different order, but end up doing the same stuff anyway... What differs at the end is: amount of time-spent, budget and result. However, most of the time getting similar results means that you end up spending same amount of money stretched over longer period of time. . Just an opinion…

Found one good reading - http://www.max-boost.co.uk

[paulmc]

Nissan 200sx the S13 runs T25 and some guys are making 240ish on standard turbos

S14 runs T28 and making 280ish bhp.

so even running the smaller T25 you can get close to 500bhp, these turbos are plentyful and cheap.

The nissan GTIR also runs the T28

cant find compressor map for them yet but going from the 200 site they will make good power.

I am trying to buy one from a guy at the moment just to see how big a job it will be to fit.

[-LegnumVR4-]

The T25 is what I've been working on as a good 'twin' setup for the engine. The T25 is rather compact and u have plenty of meat in them so u can play around with larger compressor wheels.

[valmes]

Ok. I am changing them!!! Finally decided on the setup and turbos to use.
Will try to post everything in the Members Area... notes, pictures, part numbers etc.
Hope to start by the end of next week (if my turbos arrive on time).

[paulmc]

Ok. I am changing them!!! Finally decided on the setup and turbos to use.
Will try to post everything in the Members Area... notes, pictures, part numbers etc.
Hope to start by the end of next week (if my turbos arrive on time).

What turbos are you going for, are you using the original manifold with an adapter plate or going for custom manifolds.

[valmes]

Twin TD04 setup.
Original manifolds with custom adapter plates

[paulmc]

Yeah seems the easiest way to go, there seems to be a few TD04-13g's on the go. Have a look on this site, link below

http://www.3si.org/forum/

not sure how big a job the T25's will be to fit, may end up following you yet

[valmes]

I am going for a little bigger TD04H-13T-6cm2 units. (428cfm rated flow)

PS: Look at "Power Up!!! (Turbos)" thread in Members Area for detailed explanation.

[Mante]

Yea changing my mind again, but since Im still buildng the motor I can This setup is off the 300zx

Application: 300ZX Twin Turbo CFM: 500 each Compressor Wheel: GT28 Max HP Rating: 650 hp Turbine Wheel: GT25 Price: $1490/set

I spent a couple hours on the phone with one of there reps..very helpful..he pretty much sold me on these.

[FTOLTD]

Mante

with your new engine what is the bore and stroke going to be and what horsepower is your aim

what ECU , fuel pump, injectors, fuel pressure regulator,are you going to use

are you going external or internal waste gate, what is going to be your maximum boost that you will be aiming for.

[Mante]

Mante

with your new engine what is the bore and stroke going to be and what horsepower is your aim

what ECU , fuel pump, injectors, fuel pressure regulator,are you going to use

are you going external or internal waste gate, what is going to be your maximum boost that you will be aiming for.

Havent seen the block nor heads for quite awhile, going on 2 months. Since I was spending the last couple months finishing the bodywork Im very pleased they are taking there time haha

Ecu-AEM EMS, map sensor, egt,,,etc etc
Fuel pump-walboro 255
injectors-havent figured out yet I have a set of 450cc not sure if I may need alittle larger.
fpr-weapon r (love the fact it comes with the gauge for only $75 us)
wastegates that come on the BB GT 28 will be used until something stronger is needed.
I plan to be at..around 450 to 550 awhp, those GT28's are able to give a 300zx 600 rwhp with all the supporting mods. But we will see once the dust settles, I spent much more then I expected on the body work so everything has been pushed back or delayed