Manual gearbox rattle and rebuild

[gareth001]

A few months ago my gearbox started rattling - started after being run on the dyno to be tuned... So either it was on it's last legs or the tuner hammered it a bit too much

So what was happening? Well I would get rattling from the gearbox all the time, both in neutral and in gear driving, but when the clutch was depressed (pedal to the floor) the noise would go away - therefore leaning against the release bearing.

Haveing a look around on EVO forum's it came up quite a lot, but no one had actually fixed it that I could find at the time and some people had been running 10k's miles like it - so I left it as it was just an anoying noise.

About a month ago I booked the car in with Nutter_John to get the cambelt and service done and a few days before, I started getting some oil drip onto the drive overnight. John and I both thinking it was the leak we knew about, but had gotten worse, tightened the head gasket while was there. Looking at the gearbox at the same time the diagnostics was it must be something inside the gearbox. After I picked the car up, for the next two weeks I was finding that sometimes the gearbox would sort of jump into gear - as if it was re-aligning itself. And also a couple of times changing into any gear was impossible and I would have to roll the car a little/engage-disengage the clutch to select a gear (fortunately I was driving down a hill both times).

So a couple of weeks went by and it was a Monday (16/7) and I had plans to phone John the next day to get the gearbox off and get this annoying rattle sorted as it now seamed more serious - so what happens? I pull upto a shop in Apsley on the way back from work while it is chucking it down with rain, I get back into the car and nothing, I can't select any gears - it's as if all the gates have been sealed off. I roll the car back a metre as the space allowed me and still nothing - with either the car on or off I can't select any gear. So AA to the rescue... which on a horrible rainy day during evening rush hour made it in about 20 minutes including getting lost!

In the mean time I've phoned John to make sure he can accept my car as at this point I'm expecting to have to trailer the car to Marsworth (Tring) - AA guy turns up and after checking the clutch cable was still working, he can't select a gear either. I explain it's to go to John's garage and of course being AWD it's not to be towed, only trailered. He works out it's 13 point something miles away, but I only have Roadside which allows for 10 mile recovery! If I want to upgrade my account it's going to be around £100 to do so - while I'm trying to come to terms with paying £100 for essentially a 3 mile journey he tries the gearbox again whilst engine off and manages to select a gear - great I think, but as soon as car starts gearbox is locked again. Next time he tries the same, but this time when the car starts he releases the clutch pedal which of course stalls the car, but the force of doing so seems to have shifted something inside the gearbox as I can now select gears again

Knowing there is still something wrong with the gearbox we take a slow drive over to Marsworth with the AA guy following and the gearbox appears to be working, although still rattling like mad.

-----------------------------------------
Once the gearbox is off, John discovers the start of the problem - the bellhousing is full of oil and little bits of metal, now I know where the oil leak is comming from! Clearly though something is broken inside the gearbox from all the bits of metal, pound signs start going up and up as John tells me everything and anything that it could be within the box. So options were:

Is there a manual VR-4 gearbox currently for sale in the UK? No
Do I do the first ever conversion of manual to auto? Certainly Not
Could this be the start of a EVO gearbox swop out project and potentially swop the 5th gears over? Maybe as they can be had for £400-500, but it's then another £400 to get the car remapped - Financially, No
Does it make financial sense to break the whole car? No
Get the gearbox repaired if it's economical to do so? Yes

I take the gearbox to EVO gearbox specialist FQ Performance in Brackley (http://www.fqperformance.com) - now named Optimum Performance. Once there we take the gearbox case off, half expecting a box of bits, but to my suprise all the gears and syncros look intact. But the issue is clear to see, the input shaft bearing is shot - there are supposed to be cassings around each bearing, no - not now - these cassings are partly in bits inside the gearbox or at John's garage from within the bellhousing.

So what am I looking at to get this all fixed? FQ quote me about £350 for labour (days job) plus parts. Wednesday this week though it's all done and the final price is.... £333 all in, with VAT and parts There was as expected nothing else wrong apart from the seal around the shaft to the bellhousing and the expected bearing which was £75 odd.

Today the car is being put back together and after 4 weeks hopefully tomorrow I'll be getting my Legnum back

These are two video's I found on YouTube of an EVO 8 with the same problem, but the bearing is no way as bad as mine was:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGxjvMc_S6g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHGlsebPjjs&feature=plcp - mine wasn't as loud as this whilst driving

[MarkSanne]

Good to see it got sorted at a most reasonable price! Hopefully all goes well and you'll be driving safe & 'without' sound again!

[Gly]

quite a common prob with this box,

the bearing only costs $20-50nzd and(depends where you go) the seal about $15nzd (gen mitsi part only)
its the 6-8hours labour that gets you. (unless you DIY)

[gareth001]

quite a common prob with this box,

the bearing only costs $20-50nzd and(depends where you go) the seal about $15nzd (gen mitsi part only)
its the 6-8hours labour that gets you. (unless you DIY)

I'm lucky it only took them 4 hours then if it's normally 6-8 hours.

This was the bearing that had gone, bit more than $50nzd http://www.camskill.co.uk/m8b0s2339p...7_8_CT9A%29%0A

[Gly]

I'm lucky it only took them 4 hours then if it's normally 6-8 hours.

This was the bearing that had gone, bit more than $50nzd http://www.camskill.co.uk/m8b0s2339p...7_8_CT9A%29%0A

on my back on the garage floor.

i know the bearing, its a standard size you can pick up at any good bearing place at a fraction of the mitsi price.
only the seal is special, had to get it from mitsi.

(done this job one 2 cars)

[gareth001]

on my back on the garage floor.

i know the bearing, its a standard size you can pick up at any good bearing place at a fraction of the mitsi price.
only the seal is special, had to get it from mitsi.

(done this job one 2 cars)

Should have asked you before FQ ordered the part, not only would it have been cheaper, but it also took a week to ship over from Germany to the UK

[foxdie]

Being another manual owner, I'm quite happy to see what potentially is a very scary situation is actually relatively cheap to fix, bravo

[Gowf]

John and I both thinking it was the leak we knew about, but had gotten worse, tightened the head gasket while was there.

Glad you got the gearbox issue sorted Gareth, but this is a bit worrying. Are you using standard head bolts and what torque are you setting these to by tightening them? The reason I ask is that the bolts are designed to stretch, and so by applying the torque suggested by the manufacturer when building you are physically making the bolts stretch to apply a certain load on the head surface, which in turn obviously has a corresponding tensile stress upon the bolt. If these are then further 'Torqued' over time you will be weakening your bolts as you will be applying further torque to an already stretched bolt (this is one reason why they should not be reused). I am not saying that you are going to all of a sudden experience massive fatigue failure and your head lift off, but the more you run the car with more boost the more stretch you are putting on these and so this is why you can retorque them...... Take for example my old car running 1.4bar on the TD04's. On a proper run on the dyno with 109 it would quite happily dump its coolant out of the side of the block. This is because the heads were lifting slightly (Mark's FTO did the same with a load of laughing gas). Now when off boost this was again back to normal and everything was fine and I never had an issue with the enigne and I must stress this was only when we were pushing for the big numbers. I could have retorqued the bolts to give, what you would believe to be, a greater clamping force but you do run the risk of fatigue failure and also issues on removal of bolts if you ever came to taking the heads off. The calculations for calculating the clamping force and thus the appropriate torque a fastener should have are far from trivial and engine designers are paid a good deal of money to get these figures correct.

[gareth001]

Glad you got the gearbox issue sorted Gareth, but this is a bit worrying. Are you using standard head bolts and what torque are you setting these to by tightening them?

Not sure what torque they were set to as John did them, so I trust he has not over done them as you describe. But from what he said he only did them up slightly more than they were currently.

[Nick Mann]

Are you definitely talking about head bolts and not rocker cover bolts or cam carrier bolts?

[Gowf]

Are you definitely talking about head bolts and not rocker cover bolts or cam carrier bolts?

That would make a lot more sense!!!

[SEAN-NZ]

just wandering, did it make the noise in reverse?

[gareth001]

Yes both forward and reverse as the input shaft is still spinning either way.

just wandering, did it make the noise in reverse?

[SEAN-NZ]

i thought it would, thanks