I'm going to set her on fire!!

[03G8]

I'm in need of serious help! I need this car running again before mid September which is around the time my wife gives birth, can a kind soul please help me out hear in figuring out the problem? Thank you, I greatly appreciate it!


Here's a link to the inside of my cylinder head.

http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...8-17175612.jpg

Watch The video and judge for yourself

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJDSbn9iUYM


2003 Mitsubishi Galant V6, Engine Knocking. Car ran 100% until the other day, Passed inspection like a month ago no problem, I decided to give it a back to back 2 day tune before going on a road trip. If you own this car then you know to give it a full tune is a heck of a pain.

Day 1: Changed the Oil Full Synthetic 10w30, Oil Filter and air filter. Drove the car all day not one issue.

Day 2: Took apart the intake to change Spark Plugs and Intake Gasket. Kept my work area cleaned reattached everything, inspected everything making sure all was connected properly. I turned on the car and BAM! it started knocking, so I did what any reasonable person would do, I took apart the intake again to see and make sure the cables were in the right firing order and it was. So I figured maybe spark plugs, but the plugs I put in were double platinum like the old ones before it, so I put the old ones back and guess what? Noise is not gone!

Took it to a Speed Shop where I live and the guy checked for metal in the oil and found nothing, he went inside the shop and came out with one of those expensive Automotive Stethoscope and checked the block all around. When he came to the front of the block he said he swears that something probably fell into the intake and wound up in the front cylinder on the driver side. He said that it sounds like metal bouncing off the cylinder I believe him. He told me to get a Borecope to look into the block and a Flexmagnet Pick Up Tool to pull out what ever is stuck - But I will also like to hear your opinion on what you think is wrong?

I was told various things by different people:

1: Bearings
2: Crankshaft
3: Rods
4: Knock Sensor
5: Something is in the cylinder banging against it
6: Lifters

Alright so I removed the Cylinder Head Cover/Valve Cover whatever you want to call it. I found that my front driver side rocker arm is loose, enough said because we all know there shouldn't be any play there. Anyhow so I'm thinking, and this is just a thought, does anyone think that noise I have could be coming from the cylinder head? I checked under the car and found no noise, I checked my oil pressure and theres no problem there, I found no metal flakes in my oil... I'm hoping it's not a rod??

I also found no metal objects of any kind lodged on my cylinder, someone told me could be a bad lifter that did not charge properly after I reconnected the battery and started the car... anyone who is a professional know how to test if the lifters are bad?

Important Information: The noise only comes from the front driver side top of the engine no noise underneath giving signs of a crankshaft or bearings... but what do I know, I'm not a professional, if I was I wouldn't be here seeking advice.[/SIZE]

[TAR]

Welcome to the forum....

is it a knocking noise (loud low pitch) or a tapping noise (high pitch rattle)?

It could just be a hydraulic tappet that's not re-pressurised with oil?
Hope this helps.

[03G8]

Welcome to the forum....

is it a knocking noise (loud low pitch) or a tapping noise (high pitch rattle)?

It could just be a hydraulic tappet that's not re-pressurised with oil?
Hope this helps.

Hey Tar,

Thanks for responding and welcoming me. At cold start the car has this loud knocking maybe tapping sound coming either from the cylinder head or between the cylinder head and the piston. I check all around the engine to see if the noise is coming from else where like the bottom or back of the block but nothing, the noise is coming from the top front driver side of the block. After the car warms up the noise slowly calms down but if I drive it gets loud.

here's the link see for yourself and tell me what you think.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJDSbn9iUYM

P.S. the car has no metal flakes whatsoever in the oil, and the noise came after I changed the plugs.

[Davezj]

i would second tims comments about the ticking noise.

but the noise on the video sound like you have 2 of the HT leads in the work place.

and the fact you say you put the original plug back in which means you took the HT leads off again and put them back on in the correct place.
it is a possibility.

[03G8]

Sup guys,

Say it is a Hydraulic Tappet what do you think is the best route for me to take? Buy a new cylinder head? Repair the Tappet? Or rebuild the Cylinder head? Unless you have some good tips and tricks to get the tappet to work again???

Again Thanks for your help!!

[scott.mohekey]

If its just a tappet, you might be able to get away with cleaning it, otherwise replacing it is just as easy, just slightly more costly.

[dyhwe]

wild guess, torque plate to turbin bolts.

[TAR]

if its not something that's just loose and rattling around, it could be a plug lead on wrong if the engine doesn't run smoothly.

Mitsubishi have a method of bleeding the air from the tappets by starting the car then revving it up slowly to 3000 rpm about 10 times over a number of minutes, this is supposed to remove the air.

The tappets could be removed and cleaned or they can be replaced, but will be a few dollars each, so best to try cleaning first.

I've listened to the noise on the video and I still think it could be the tappets.

[03G8]

if its not something that's just loose and rattling around, it could be a plug lead on wrong if the engine doesn't run smoothly.

Mitsubishi have a method of bleeding the air from the tappets by starting the car then revving it up slowly to 3000 rpm about 10 times over a number of minutes, this is supposed to remove the air.

The tappets could be removed and cleaned or they can be replaced, but will be a few dollars each, so best to try cleaning first.

I've listened to the noise on the video and I still think it could be the tappets.

So here's the deal, I did the slow rev up to 3000 rpm's for 3 minutes, then I shut the car off and restarted it and did the rev again, I notice the noise began to leave but then it came back. So i Shut the car off and did it again becoming gleeful with joy as I noticed the noise was leaving, but guess what? The noise now comes and goes when i start the car but something new developed, the car doesn't want to stay on, it quickly shuts off after i turn it on.

I tried to rev it up to 2000 and 3000 rpm's after starting it hoping to get some pressure establish in the fuel system. As I do this the tapping noise goes and comes in between the time frame of me starting the car and it shutting off on it's own, which is roughly about 2-3 seconds all together. Also to top everything off now the check engine light came on.


So here is what I'm thinking you tell me,

Oil pump?
Timing went off?
Lifter definitely no good?
10W30 Oil to thick?
Plugs no good anymore?
Fuel Pressure?
MAF Air Sensor?
Camshaft Sensor?
Fuel Flooded the Injectors?
Fuel Pump?
Fuel Strainer?

Any idea?

(In a world where a man struggles to save his car's life, he soon becomes its executioner when he grabs a tank of gasoline and equips himself with a box of matches.) June is the Galant Killer! coming to a theater near you.

[03G8]

wild guess, torque plate to turbin bolts.

Hey Dyhwe,

Thanks for the respond I appreciate you time, the thing is I have 3.0 no turbine, or torque plate.

[wintertidenz]

Pull the engine codes and see what they say - it may point you in the right direction.

[03G8]

Pull the engine codes and see what they say - it may point you in the right direction.

Good idea, I'll try that out... Thanks!

[Turbo_Steve]

That definitely sounds like valve-train, not powertrain, so you can rule out bottom end problems (bearings, rods, pistons, etc) as it's happening at too-high a frequency.

It doesn't sound like something in the cylinder - and it's louder than a lifter IMO.
My guess is that something has dropped into the cylinder. When you restarted the car, it has blasted out and damaged an exhaust valve.
Again, a boreoscope and hand cranking the engine is most likely to spot this, and/or a compression test.

I wouldn't have thought that is a misfire, as to misfire at that speed it would need to be on multiple cylinders. It's worth rechecking the leads, though.

[03G8]

Hey Everyone I have an update!

So I received a mighty worm in the mail today, for those who do not know what it is, it's a Flexible magnetic tool that you stick into the Spark plug holes to pull out any metal that may have fallen in. So I took out my front driver side plug and stuck the might worm in there, I heard something quickly snap to the end of the magnet so I pulled it out and there it was, small piece of metal no bigger than my pinkie finger nail. So I stuck the worm back in again and it pulled out another piece this time slightly bigger, about the size of my pinkie nail, both pieces where thin aluminum and flattened. I checked the other 2 plug holes just to be safe and nothing, so I mounted everything back on and turned the car on which now it improved in power and it doesn't shut off.

The car was quiet but then the tapping noise came back, so now this time I think that those little metal pieces might have destroyed or ruin my valves. Is it just cheaper for me to buy rebuilt cylinder heads?

Problem Solved

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQ48WtTeyGk

Revenge of the Knock
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tj_Cm_sSXKo


I saw them for sale at in http://www.shop.headsonly.com/MITSUB...SOHC-FF-FR.htm
for only $300 US.

I can do the labor myself but I need to know if you think it might be the valves in the cylinder head or something else?


UPDATE 8:00

I had someone from a speed shop come check out the car a few minutes ago. he aid to me I have Good news and Bad news:

Good News: The noise stopped
Bad News: The pieces of metal is from the Valve Seat and the car tremble might not go away. He also said I need to test the air compression to make sure thats the problem.

He pulled out the Spak plug cables one by one checking to see if my car lost power which it did for every one he pulled out and it gained power when put back in. When he pulled the plug from where i pulled out the metal the car didn't lose power. He said there was my culprit and so now that I know what the problem is, anyone has the best route for me to go? 2 New Head Cylinders or Repair the one?

[TAR]

I'm glad to hear that you have found the cause of the noise, its a shame that it was metal in the cylinder as it has probably put many marks in the crown of the piston and the head. These may now both need changing depending on how bad they are. You will only know if you need to change them after dismantling the head from the block.

You are best placed to know if a refurb or replacement is best as you can better determine the relative costs of each.

One thing I would advise..... if you are not sure you can do the work yourself, its best to get someone else to do it so you don't end up with bits of metal in the engine again!!

[03G8]

I'm glad to hear that you have found the cause of the noise, its a shame that it was metal in the cylinder as it has probably put many marks in the crown of the piston and the head. These may now both need changing depending on how bad they are. You will only know if you need to change them after dismantling the head from the block.

You are best placed to know if a refurb or replacement is best as you can better determine the relative costs of each.

One thing I would advise..... if you are not sure you can do the work yourself, its best to get someone else to do it so you don't end up with bits of metal in the engine again!!

Hey Tar,

Thanks for the advice! I drove it today to a nearby local Speed Shop that I have dealt with before from when I had my 72 and 73 Nova. The guy checked it for me, he said those pieces of metal weren't from the valve seat but pieces of metal that probably fell in, like a screw or something similar. He checked my exhaust from the rear of the car and placed his hand over it to the point where it sound like air tapping off his hand, and so he said my exhaust valves needed to be replaced not all 12 but just the four from where I pulled out the metal from. He told me pull out the head and bring it to him and He'll charge me a $100 U.S. and he'll do the job for me within the hour and all i have to do is wait for it. For me sounds like a great deal, what do you think?

[03G8]

OH THE HORROR!

I bent my front driver side intake and exhaust valves and the Piston that had the metal banging against it is all scratched up with minor dents here and there, my rocker arm has a bad crack, and the bottom of cylinder head looks like someone put a grinder to it. This is my worse case scenario come to life, I'm replacing the whole head, as for the piston is there any short cuts like possibly refinishing it? If not then I'm going to go for a 6G72 engine swap a little steeper in my pockets, because if I'm going to spend about 2 - 3G's replacing or rebuilding, then I'm better off treating my self to some mechanical candy.

I am opened to your mechanical wisdom if you could help me out here with some advice, do I try repair what I have now? or just get another block?