VR-4 Dream or Reality?

[03G8]

Sup everyone,

While I'm still trying to get my stock 3.0 to run I have been plagued with a question. VR-4 or Evo? I'm not speaking about the car I'm talking about an engine swap.

I notice that the Evo engine compartment seems a little to cramped and almost everyone is sporting an Evo block when they do an engine swap. So I'm considering a VR-4, but I'm unsure for the moment. This is where you come in and offer your advice which will be eventually disputed by another member who believes that his/her idea and expertise surpasses yours. Do I go Evo or VR-4?? <<<The heated debate that will never die!

Whichever path you help me follow I'm planning on doing a ground up rebuild in a slow progression. My rebuild will consist of reading you're feedback and recommendations as well as a lot of research to compare notes with yours. I will build this block in my dungeon and hook it up to live wires that run to an antenna on my roof which will be brought to life at the strikes of lightnings, I shall name it Frankenstein! I think I'm confusing my reality with Fiction... sorry I got carried away.

In this rebuild I need every detail that will and can be of extreme help, the most I plan on having has to be between 300 - 500HP only because I want to live to see tomorrow, I don't trust myself with fast cars. I want to know about Honing Size, Intakes, Internal Engine Parts (Aftermarket or OEM) Turbo (No NOS Please) anything you can think of, this will be our project, I will record everything once I decide which route and Block to buy. Also please inform me about motor mounts and anything minor that I can add in my engine compartment that will help with the motor's performance.

Thanks for Reading!

Your friendly neighborhood Noob!

P.S. My car is an 03 Galant ES 3.0, it's an all stock car so the options of tuning it are kind limitless until at least it leaves broke.

[Badger_01]

I'd have to go with teh vr-4 engine, 6a13tt. Would prob be a lot easier to do than an evo motor. But thats about as far as I can input at this stage

[The Vee]

When you say VR4 I take it you mean the V6 TT 6A13? Or maybe the 3.0 litre you have in the states? If it is the former then I would have thought spares and tuning will be very difficult to find over there, so on that basis I would probably say EVO. Far more opportunities to tune and build one of those engines.

[Gingerfish]

If you want to go for instant power then an Evo engine engine will be the way to go.
TBH most opinions on here about various mods and power upgrades will be split, so you'll be hard pushed to get straight opinions followed by people agreeing. Best thing to do would be to spend time researching (as boring as it may sound), as you will learn a lot for yourself as well as figuring out what will work best for you.
You will also encounter at some point, the power vs. reliability question. Then after that, you have the ultimate question along your journey ; When is it time to stop modifying?
Evo engines will be smaller, but recently there have been some exciting developments regarding turbo upgrade kits, group buys for forged engine components and various electrical components that could be realising in excess of 500bhp. It really all depends on how much money you have to spend and how far you are prepared to go.

As easy as it is to just ask for everybody's opinion, like I said take the time to scan through all of the available info on the site as well as following other peoples personal modifying threads and use the info you gain to decide what works best for you. You'll probably find the choices are fairly endless once you get started.
You can't really expect people to tell you exactly what to do without doing a bit of reading, but there will be plenty of help and advice forthcoming from members to guide you as you go.

Hope I've been of some help.
Good luck on your exciting new journey chap

[Oblivion]

Im no expert but I would say an evo engine is going to be much easier and cheaper.

[Turbo_Steve]

It depends what you're trying to achieve and how much you're willing to spend.
Stateside, the Evo lump is more readily available, and the tuning options are limitless - there are tuning shops that have taken them to over 1000bhp, so power output is only as limited as your budget.
However, any engine outputting more than 200% of it's intended power output tends to be pretty horrid to drive (unless it was massively under-designed to start with).
The Evo engine isn't super-refined to start with.

If you're talking about a 6a13tt, then you're going to get super-smooth power delivery, masses or torque and a lovely noise - it responds more like a 5.0L NA V8 than a Japanese TurboCharged V6. It's a nice drivers engine.
IF you're looking to build a power monster, it's the wrong engine. It doesn't particularly want to rev-high, internals cost a fortune, and the turbos are a hideous limitation, the cams are a bit of a let-down. You ECU options aren't huge, either.

Plus you'll need to find one

[03G8]

Thanks for your feedback,

I am going to research as much as I can of course including visiting local speed shops, but I love to hear everyone's opinion so I can go down a strong and assertive path.

Say I did go with the VR-4 can you please tell me pro and cons about the motor and vice versa about the Evo.

Also out here in the states is a 3000 GT motor the same as the VR-4 in the out there in Europe?

I would love to get my hands on the 2.5 L 6A13TT V6, or an engine that is similar to it in every way possible.

Parts I can always get em I have family in the Army living out in Germany so I'm not worried about that, I want this car to be fast but also street legal.


Legnum 2.5 L 6A13TT V6 (Peak power — 206 kW (280 PS; 276 hp) at 5500 rpm Peak torque — 367 N·m (271 lb·ft) at 4000 rpm)


3000GT VR-4 6G72 DOHC 24v V6 twin turbo (Peak power - 239 kW (325 PS; 321 hp) at 6000 rpm Peak torque — 427 N·m (315 lb·ft) at 2500 rpm)

So what do you think?

[Turbo_Steve]

I think you need to price out how much it's going to cost to buy parts for. That will decide for you IMO.

[03G8]

I think you need to price out how much it's going to cost to buy parts for. That will decide for you IMO.

Hey Turbo_Steve,

lets say I have 2000 to start and keep in mind that this going to be a slow build, which means I will be willing to spend more as time goes by.


Steps in my build:

I'll start off with buying a block and internal parts. (Performance or OEM, you tell me.) - My goal is 300 - 500 HP and I know performance starts with the internal so what are my options. (Machine Shop Boring .010 .020 .040?? Bearings 10, 20, 30, What kind of piston name brand? piston rings? Camshaft? rod bearings, main bearings and Etc.)


Then external parts in the near future:

Then the engine swap.

Then the performance external kits whatever they may be. (Intake, motor mounts, turbo and so forth.)

[scott.mohekey]

To be honest, you'd be far better off putting a 3000GT/GTO engine in there. It has the same block as what you've already got, and the aftermarket support in the states for the 6g72 is FAR better than 6A13, and 6g72s have already been pushed FAR further than the 6A13 ever has (and is ever likely to be).

[03G8]

To be honest, you'd be far better off putting a 3000GT/GTO engine in there. It has the same block as what you've already got, and the aftermarket support in the states for the 6g72 is FAR better than 6A13, and 6g72s have already been pushed FAR further than the 6A13 ever has (and is ever likely to be).

Hey Scott.mohekey,

Funny you should say that, I was talking to someone today from a speed shop and he said the same thing. Told me I can get an easy 300 - 500HP of the stock alone with minor upgrades and when I asked him how much to drop the engine in once I built it, he said $3,500 US and he'll guarantee I will won't need to go back because of issues after the installation.

So I decided to go with the 3000 GT/GTO engine, he said if I build it right it should last me a couple of years without an issue.

So down to business lets talk parts for it!

P.S. Not that I don't like manual, but I'm going automatic making it easy for my wife to drive as well.

[03G8]

I'm planning on going with a 6g72 from a 3000GT I have to go this route since my motor is officially shot! Piston no good and cylinder head is badly damaged.

I need help I want to drop the VR4 engine into my 03 V6 Galant ES, I am a Noob at this but I will have help from family members, what I need to know is in terms of swapping
what do I need to change on my Galant to make my swap possible? Mounts? Tranny? How does the engine bolt up? Do i need to mess around with my power steering? Dash? Wiring?

Before I drop it in is a .040 a good bore or am I over doing it and should go with a .030? And what size bearing will go good with the boring? and also what is a good manufacturer for parts that I will need? Should I stick with the original VR4 head or do I go for another? I want to know every nook and cranny that I need to know when it comes to building and dropping this thing in to my bay. I have a Hoist, Welder, hand and power tools so the only thing I have to worry about is parts and conversion. My goal for HP's is 500 max and please be advised I need to make sure the parts I drop in will last me about 5 years!


THANX FOR YOUR HELP! and of course advice.


P.S. I'm going automatic AWD, Will I need to touch the tranny in anyway if I increase on my horse power?

I know when I did my Nova I has to upgrade parts and drop in a shift kit and remove a bearing or two, although these are two different mechanical parts is the concept the same?

[Nick Mann]

TBH this is probably not the best forum to ask these questions. Ben of Eurospec on here has a very powerful GTO/3000GT and lots of experience of the 8th gen VR4, but not many on here have any knowledge of the USDM 8th gen Galant. The vast majority of us here with technical help are limited to the 6A13TT and the JDM Galant. Even then most of us couldn't answer a question on the best over bore or bearing upgrades.