Manual Vr4 and AYC?

[bernmc]

<!--StartFragment --> Just want to clarify something with those in the know: Do the manual VR4's come with AYC? I'm talking about the 96 MY here - I'm to powa for anything more recent. I always assumed they did, but recent reading has cast some doubt...

And PLEASE don't turn this into another manual vs auto thread

[jeff]

As far as I know, it would have AYC in conjuction with the 4WD system. They are hugely rare, I don't know if anyone on here has a manual, I've heard of people talking about them, I may be wrong of course, but the majority of the VR4's are auto/tip.
Have seen a few advertised, mostly from Keighley Trade Centre, but not one in the flesh.
Also, and I think I'm right in saying this, all 260 bhp cars are auto,(pre 98) as they then brought them up to 280 to match the manual counterparts, this means that a 96MY will have 280 as standard.

Feel free to abuse any bum knowledge.....................

[Nick Mann]

It is possible to get manual with and without AYC. Non AYC cars are a rare type of VR4, though, so I would imagine most you will see would have. If you find a manual VR4 without AYC it would be a combination of so many rare things it could well be the only one you'll ever see!!

[jeff]

Hey you learn something new every day, Nick I always have thiught that they came with AYC, purely for the fact that I thought it was a VR4 "upgrade from standard" ie turbos etc.

What kind of VR4 wouldn't have it, are they the ones with just TC?

[Nick Mann]

I think the type V came without. Whether it was an option on those, I'm not sure, but there are definitely some without. I am relatively sure that the VR-4's without AYC had a limited slip rear diff instead. In an older model, probably less expensive to fix, but how much would it affect the handling?

[wirdy]

They are hugely rare, I don't know if anyone on here has a manual, I've heard of people talking about them, I may be wrong of course, but the majority of the VR4's are auto/tip..................

There are a few of us.

[jeff]

Apologies Wirdy, I had a feeling there were one or two!! Here's a question though, have you had a go in a Tip one as well, and what is the manual box like, they obviously geared the car towards the auto with the Invecs malarky, but how good is a VR4 without the computer having a say in proceedings?

[jeff]

I think the type V came without. Whether it was an option on those, I'm not sure, but there are definitely some without. I am relatively sure that the VR-4's without AYC had a limited slip rear diff instead. In an older model, probably less expensive to fix, but how much would it affect the handling?

It would certainly be damn good fun!!!! Depending on the Bias of the 4WD I would imagine drifting one would be big smiles all round!

[Sulli]

There's also a Legnum VR4 STR (I think). Saw one at Auto Couture (his mate's car) - they have 240 BHP standard, one turbo (again, I think), and no AYC???

There's some other variants too.

[wirdy]

Apologies Wirdy, I had a feeling there were one or two!! Here's a question though, have you had a go in a Tip one as well, and what is the manual box like, they obviously geared the car towards the auto with the Invecs malarky, but how good is a VR4 without the computer having a say in proceedings?

Had a go in three autos (20 min test drives) prior to getting my manual.

It just so happened that the manual for sale at the time ( I didn't know they were rarer, then) was in much better condition and had most of the mods I would have done already on it.

The tip box is a delight to use & wonderfully relaxing in traffic. My 'box takes a little time to warm on these cold mornings and baulks a bit going from 1st to 2nd until the oil has got round (common on VR4's and EVo's apparently?).

If it wasn't for the hideously expensive repair costs when the auto plays up, I'd have chopped my manual in for an auto long ago (there you go, I've said it!!).

As it is, I know that if the worst happens and I chew a gearbox and a clutch, I'll still have change out of £1000. Once tip troubles start they rarely go away without a new gearbox or £££££'s.

Don't let me put you off though - it seems if you have a good 'un, it'll last forever.

As the drivtrain is essentially an EVO 4 derivitive, I'd say the opposite is true & the car was already designed as a manual before they modified it to be an auto (to fit in with the Galant image). There's no difference after the tranfer box anyhow.

[jeff]

Interesting reading Wirdy, I think my one should be ok as doesn't do a great many miles, and only had 27k on the clock and what seems like a pretty knowledgable owner on servicing etc. Just hope it doesn't break round the Ring on occasion!
There is always going to be a limited amount of control with any auto box, I just wanted to know how well geared they are, the auto seems very well matched, with just a constant push with very little fall off (if any) between gears, is this similar in the manuals, and is the box a derivative of the EVO4 as well?

[Polabear]

As far as I know, it would have AYC in conjuction with the 4WD system. They are hugely rare, I don't know if anyone on here has a manual, I've heard of people talking about them, I may be wrong of course, but the majority of the VR4's are auto/tip.
Have seen a few advertised, mostly from Keighley Trade Centre, but not one in the flesh.
Also, and I think I'm right in saying this, all 260 bhp cars are auto,(pre 98) as they then brought them up to 280 to match the manual counterparts, this means that a 96MY will have 280 as standard.

Feel free to abuse any bum knowledge.....................

I have a manual Legnum and it has AYC fitted as std.....but it doesn't have TCL.... and as I have said once before here in theses hallowed portals, you can't lay HUGE gobs of power down from a standing start with a manual box like you can with a tip, there Iv'e said it too, I think tips are better than manuals....till they let go that is....

[wirdy]

Interesting reading Wirdy, I think my one should be ok as doesn't do a great many miles, and only had 27k on the clock and what seems like a pretty knowledgable owner on servicing etc. Just hope it doesn't break round the Ring on occasion!
There is always going to be a limited amount of control with any auto box, I just wanted to know how well geared they are, the auto seems very well matched, with just a constant push with very little fall off (if any) between gears, is this similar in the manuals, and is the box a derivative of the EVO4 as well?

The bands in all auto boxes will wear out eventually, the secret seems to be regular flush & fill ( the yanks seem to have this cracked with jiffylube, etc stations all over their country). I'd reckon the auto box is also kinder to the rest of the transmission too - no real snatch loading, just smooth power.

The manual box is close-ratio, as expected and is well matched IMO, there are no great gaps in the gearing that cause the engine to bog down. With the torque available from our motors it could handle an overdrive 6th gear easily, however that would maybe compromise fuel economy as I would probably just put my foot down in 6th and spool the turbos up instead of using the gears

In my limited knowledge I haven't seen anything to contradict my understanding that an EVO 4-onwards gearbox would fit straight onto a manual VR4, the clutch is a bit different though but the input shaft is the same AFAIK. Perhaps Mo (zedy) or Richard (zentac) might be able to confirm this as they've played around with engines & gearboxes a lot more than most. the engines / gearboxes of various models seem highly interchangeable.

I haven't had to research this, so I haven't

Sean - I have all the details for Helix clutches for our cars - spoke to a nice Helix man at the NEC autosports show last week. Not too much more expensive either (compared to the cost of the Mitsi items). The standard Helix organic clutch kit offers 25% uprating.

[KiwiTT]

Back to bermmc's point.

Original Sales
Type V - Manual (optional AYC)
Type S - Auto (Standard AYC,ASC,TCL)

Some Type S have been converted to Manual in Japan, which may now cause some of the confusion.

[nick-f1]

you can't lay HUGE gobs of power down from a standing start with a manual box like you can with a tip, :

Well mines manual too and with AYC as standard without TLC, but I still disagree with the above portion of yr statement Sean! I don't know what problems you have with yours but I dont have trouble getting the power down...... ask hjm or spirit.
But I love autos too they're great for town/traffic.

[Kenneth]

Well mines manual too and with AYC as standard without TLC, but I still disagree with the above portion of yr statement Sean! I don't know what problems you have with yours but I dont have trouble getting the power down...... ask hjm or spirit.
But I love autos too they're great for town/traffic.

Yeah, I don't have any trouble laying down the power eithier. In fact, I have only managed to loose traction off the line in the wet. Or uphill in 2nd after dipping the clutch

[Kieran]

Ahem... a bit:topic:Bleh... You lot should try a V6 Sport..... Frikkin' burnout-tastic unless you pour superglue over your tyres everyday.... :$

[Kenneth]

FWD?

I could imagine the VR-4 with FWD... traction would be a nightmare. Hit boost comming around a corner and there goes your steering.

My old mans' Honda Integra is bad enough, and while its quick its nothing on the VR-4.

[wirdy]

Just have a passenger ride with Richard (zentac) some time.

FTO + VR4 engine + 2WD = loads of sideways scrubbing action. When the traction bites though......wow!! :-D :-D


BTW Nick......mine has lots of TLC as well, but not TCL

[nick-f1]

BTW Nick......mine has lots of TLC as well, but not TCL

Oops! :$