camber kit,will this work?

[Davezj]

You can use a camber gauge to check the alignment.
Stick the gauge to the disk centre (magnetic fixing) zero the gauge, change the camber recheck the camber. It will tell you the difference between zeroed angle and the new angle.
They are not expensive any more.

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[Louis]

Yes, you need to have a bit more than one finger as the suspension has to move a bit.

In my experience you can have two fingers all round!, but you need to stiffen the shock setting right up which makes the ride quite harsh, you also don't want it to skip over bumps if too stiff .
You can use a spirit level for basic set up before going for alignment.
Use a spirit level on your iphone or mobile or a digital level.

[Pugme]

I had a wheel to arch gap of 3 business card thicknesses

So anything is possible to be driven on lol

[Pugme]

Screenshot_20170305-174657_zpserurvqes.jpgh

[Davezj]

Just to necro another thread - that item isn't available any more.

Are these ok?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Avenger-...VXfqYM&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sebring-Aven...3D291813159976

Piers i have some advice about new Tein coilovers, to keep them in tip top condition i would suggest once you have them setup as you want them, make sure you grease up the exposed adjustment threads on the shock body and cover them with duct tape you think it will not stick to greased threads but it will wrap round and the tape will stick to itself and hold into position. the reason for me suggesting this is the salt used on the roads in the UK the dirt the constant water splashes it will not take long for the threads to get clogged up and to start corroding, not to mention the spring seats and locking nut, they are aluminium and they will start to corrode as well. so the more grease and the more it covered by tape the better they will last, so when you want to change the ride height or preload in the spring it will be possible to adjust them. i have seen enough teins in terrible condition to know that this is a must.

[Piers1989]

Piers i have some advice about new Tein coilovers, to keep them in tip top condition i would suggest once you have them setup as you want them, make sure you grease up the exposed adjustment threads on the shock body and cover them with duct tape you think it will not stick to greased threads but it will wrap round and the tape will stick to itself and hold into position. the reason for me suggesting this is the salt used on the roads in the UK the dirt the constant water splashes it will not take long for the threads to get clogged up and to start corroding, not to mention the spring seats and locking nut, they are aluminium and they will start to corrode as well. so the more grease and the more it covered by tape the better they will last, so when you want to change the ride height or preload in the spring it will be possible to adjust them. i have seen enough teins in terrible condition to know that this is a must.

Thanks Dave, good advice.

I will do just this. I was surprised how much crap was in the threads already when I was adjusting it!

[Piers1989]

If you want to correct the camber on the rear with 3°, you can calculate the thickness of the washers you need.
- I took a PFL (front!) hub and measured the distance between the top and the centre of the axis: is was about 38cm.
- I provided a triangle calculator on the web with data and got nearly 2cm for the thickness of the washers.
Please note: I took a front hub, so measure the rear by yourself.
Attachment 76809 Attachment 76810 Attachment 76808

Just my 2pence regarding rear adjustment with washer method, dead easy to do but BE CAREFUL WHEN DRIVING CAR FIRST TIME AFTER ADJUSTMENT it can kill you easy if you overdo it, rear end became very lively if you end up with positive camber, I sheet myself back in the days.

Thanks for this too guys, I'll certainly be careful, and see if I can measure the rear arm.

I'll look into getting a camber gauge too if they are cheap, or I'll see if we have a spirit level from work - that would indeed be an easy way to estimate!

[Davezj]

This is the sort of thing I have.
Digital protractor
Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262872167645

Rather than a dedicated camber gauge.

With the digital protractor you don't have to worry about having the car set perfectly level as you zero it on the car then make the adjustment and take the new reading.

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[Piers1989]

This is the sort of thing I have.
Digital protractor
Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262872167645

Rather than a dedicated camber gauge.

With the digital protractor you don't have to worry about having the car set perfectly level as you zero it on the car then make the adjustment and take the new reading.

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That looks like a pretty easy way to do it actually, good idea!

Where on the car would you suggest as a level point? Most of the bodywork isn't exactly straight.

[Davezj]

You don't need a level point. you have been told you have say 3 Deg of camber by the garage you attach the gauge to brake disk centre, zero the gauge make the adjustment and the gauge tells you the difference in the angle. In this case it would be 3 Deg or -3 Deg depending on which way you have the gauge orientated.

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[Piers1989]

You don't need a level point you have been told you have say 3 Deg of camber you attach the gauge to break disk centre, zero the gauge make the adjustment and the gauge tells you the difference in the angle. In this case it would be 3 Deg or -3 Deg depending on which way you have the gauge orientated.

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Oh, of course! I didn't think of it that way!

[Davezj]

The bubble gauges work as well but I believe you have to have the car level before you can take a reading.
I presume as well that the camber will change as the weight of the car is applied to the wheel hub and the suspension is compressed.
So checking it loaded and unloaded you be good to do.
I think it depends on if the suspension has equal length upper and lower arms.

You could simulate the weight of the car on the wheel hub without the wheel on be putting g a jack under the bottom of the suspension arm at the hub and raise the jack until the car just start to lift off the axle stands then lower it back down so it just touched the stands. Then you know almost the full weight of the car is on the suspension and the hub is sitting in its normal position. This is the way the camber would have been measured in the alignment shop with weight on the hub. You could zero the gauge at this point release the jack and see how the camber has changed. I would have thought it would go back to a position with no bad camber

Just thinking out loud.

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[Piers1989]

The bubble gauges work as well but I believe you have to have the car level before you can take a reading.
I presume as well that the camber will change as the weight of the car is applied to the wheel hub and the suspension is compressed.
So checking it loaded and unloaded you be good to do.
I think it depends on if the suspension has equal length upper and lower arms.

You could simulate the weight of the car on the wheel hub without the wheel on be putting g a jack under the bottom of the suspension arm at the hub and raise the jack until the car just start to lift off the axle stands then lower it back down so it just touched the stands. Then you know almost the full weight of the car is on the suspension and the hub is sitting in its normal position. This is the way the camber would have been measured in the alignment shop with weight on the hub. You could zero the gauge at this point release the jack and see how the camber has changed. I would have thought it would go back to a position with no bad camber

Just thinking out loud.

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Yeah that's why I wasn't too sure about the bubble levels, when your talking only a couple of degrees I imagine having a non level surface would make a big difference.

Could I not go for it by working to cancel out what has been shown on the alignment report?
By this I mean even with the car on a jack, if I know I want it to have 3 degrees more camber, I take a baseline reading to zero the machine on this disk, then adjust until the gauge reads +3 degrees from that baseline.
Or do you think that there will be a relative difference based on the weight too? (As in 3 degrees under no weight != 3 degrees under weight).

[Confused]

The wheels tuck in as you lower, introducing camber, so we know that the suspension arms aren't equal length. Therefore the amount of camber will change based upon suspension height (ie weight applied), so it needs to be set as per it sat on its wheels, else you may introduce more or less camber at ride height as the suspension moves on its arc.

It may be some trial and error, and taking it apart a couple of times, but by "resetting" the ride height after lowering it onto the ground (by bouncing it up and down, or driving it a short distance), you can take the new measurement against the old.

Typically, adjusting camber will also adjust toe, just due to the design of most suspension systems, so it's likely the toe will need readjusting anyway...

I'd be lost without my access to a Hunter alignment machine! It's a shame your nearest is at KwikFit!

[Piers1989]

The wheels tuck in as you lower, introducing camber, so we know that the suspension arms aren't equal length. Therefore the amount of camber will change based upon suspension height (ie weight applied), so it needs to be set as per it sat on its wheels, else you may introduce more or less camber at ride height as the suspension moves on its arc.

It may be some trial and error, and taking it apart a couple of times, but by "resetting" the ride height after lowering it onto the ground (by bouncing it up and down, or driving it a short distance), you can take the new measurement against the old.

Typically, adjusting camber will also adjust toe, just due to the design of most suspension systems, so it's likely the toe will need readjusting anyway...

I'd be lost without my access to a Hunter alignment machine! It's a shame your nearest is at KwikFit!

Indeed Garry!

I understand that the camber will change when under weight, but will the change be relative to when lifted? As in will it change in a 1:1 ratio was my question.
Like if I lift, measure, adjust +3, drop - would you expect that to still be +3? I know doing this wouldn't give me any idea of what the camber now was, but if I know that it is X more than it was, that would be enough info to make some adjustments.

Otherwise yes, I was thinking about the lift, adjust, drop, drive, retest approach!

Once I'm happy-ish with the camber, I'll take it to be realigned anyway, so the toe should be corrected. I'll let KwikFit set the front camber once the ball joint is in as looking at how it becomes adjustable I wouldn't imagine them having a problem using that.

In relation to picking the ball joint, after doing some reading, it looks like having a little negative camber is actually desirable? I was thinking about having the wheels aligned to -1 degree all around.
For that I assume this would be suitable (my current readings were -1.53* and -2.11* on the front). https://www.ingallseng.com/35620-adj...all-joint.html
My only concern is that it says 1998-1994 galant, which doesn't exactly match up with production dates as far as I know! It does also list the eclipse though so I'm guessing its correct? It's a fair bit of cash to get 2 and have them shipped from the states to find out they aren't right!

[Confused]

No I don't think it would be a 1:1 mapping - you'd only get that on equal length arms where the camber doesn't change

With the measurements from the various joints, it could be calculated... But it's probably quicker to just do it!!

Yes negative camber does have its advantages in some cases, and it will affect the handling of the car - excessive negative camber on the front will change steering weight and self-centering characteristics - again the design means that the camber does change as you turn the wheel, and as the suspension moves up and down.

A VR-4 set up to factory specs does drive and ride fantastically - Mitsubishi did a good job IMO, changing this might change the way out feels, but it might lose some of the refinement if it becomes a bit more "lively"

I set my mum's old MX5 up with quite an aggressive geometry - it turned in and handled brilliantly and gripped well, but when it reached the limit, it went. Whereas as standard, it was slightly less responsive (but still very good) but it was a lot more progressive.

A VR-4 is likely to be at higher speeds when the limit is approaching - I'd rather it be progressive than snappy!


Suspension geometry is an art form, there's no doubt about that!!

[Piers1989]

No I don't think it would be a 1:1 mapping - you'd only get that on equal length arms where the camber doesn't change

With the measurements from the various joints, it could be calculated... But it's probably quicker to just do it!!

Yes negative camber does have its advantages in some cases, and it will affect the handling of the car - excessive negative camber on the front will change steering weight and self-centering characteristics - again the design means that the camber does change as you turn the wheel, and as the suspension moves up and down.

A VR-4 set up to factory specs does drive and ride fantastically - Mitsubishi did a good job IMO, changing this might change the way out feels, but it might lose some of the refinement if it becomes a bit more "lively"

I set my mum's old MX5 up with quite an aggressive geometry - it turned in and handled brilliantly and gripped well, but when it reached the limit, it went. Whereas as standard, it was slightly less responsive (but still very good) but it was a lot more progressive.

A VR-4 is likely to be at higher speeds when the limit is approaching - I'd rather it be progressive than snappy!


Suspension geometry is an art form, there's no doubt about that!!

That's very true I love the predictability of the VR4.
Am I reading the printout from KwikFit correctly as showing the stock front camber to be 0 and rear to be -0.8?

[Confused]

Front camber 0°00' +/- 0°30'
Rear camber 1°00' +/- 0°30'

Or, in decimal...

Front: 0.00° +/- 0.5°
Rear: 1.00° +/- 0.5°

There's 60' (minutes) in 1° (degree)

I'm needing to adjust my rear camber by putting some spacers on the top mount on the passenger side too. That tyre wore down quicker than the others due to the increased camber.

IMG_20170219_164315.jpg IMG_20170219_164322.jpg

(My front toe is actually -0°02 both sides, but I knocked it as I was lowering the ramp before I could take the photo!)