Knocking/Rumbling OSF

[giblet]

Ever since I bought my car there has been a knocking/rumbling from the OSF when going over rough surfaces or speed bumps. Its slowly getting more noticeable and there's a bit of play in the steering.

I jacked the car up today, removed the wheel and had a look around. I seem to be able to move the lower curved arm by just grabbing it and shaking it up and down. There's no play in the straight arms (which seem to have been replaced recently as the Mitsubishi stickers are still on them) and no play in the upper curved arm.

I'm guessing the lower curved arm needs replacing. Is it best to stick with genuine Mitsubishi parts? I know there's issues with using aftermarket straights but unsure about the curved ones. Should I be replacing both sides at the same time and finally am I still ok to drive the car in the meantime? I've kept it off the road for the past week aside from a short trip to Dewsbury yesterday.

[Davezj]

i would replace both curved arms at the same time.
personally i would not worry about OEM parts for the curved arms as these do not bear any weight, they just controm the forward and backwards movement of the wheel wheel steering, it is important to get it fixed, but mine was clanking very loudly before i found what was making the noise.
it is not difficult to change it is only 5 bolts to remove, 2 of those are just to gain access to the 2 bolts on the back end of the curved arm.
i would be happy to use after market parts the curved arm. there some on ebay for about £45 each. at the moment. just search on legnum and you will find them.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/0424-E55RH...item19e9b21ed4

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/0424-E55LH...item1c3d727261

you are better fitting the rear two bolts first and then the front ball joint, as the arm is under a bit of tension via the rubber bushing at the back end of the arm. so fit that first then it is easy to fit the ball joint.

[giblet]

Thanks for the help as always Dave. I'll get them ordered, not sure about fitting them myself given the ruddy weather so I'll ring a few local garages.

[Davezj]

It should only take half an hour per side (tops) to fit them. so if they say it will be 3 hours labour then tell them any competant mechanic should be able to do it in under 1 hour total time for the job. and take it somewhere else to do the work.

before giving them to the garage to fit them, just make sure the ball joint is quite stiff in the arm, it will loosen up over time, but at the start they should be quite tight and it should be difficult to move with just your hand. you need to take the orange plastic cap off the ball joint before you try and move them.

[Nick Mann]

They do move a bit, they have a flexible joint at both ends. Having said that, they are often the cause of knocking.

[giblet]

It seemed to be the only part with any play in it. Everything else seemed solid and the springs didn't seem to be damaged or broken.

[Davezj]

Sorry i had assumed that gib @giblet had moved the curved arm and seen the ball moving in the cup and diagnosed the issue himself.
but as nick says if it just the arm moving on the rubber bushing then it is nothing to worry about.
if they have failed you should be able to see a vertical movement right at the end of the arm with the ball joint on and should feel the clunk as you move it. you can move the arms with a pry bar/crow bar. place the pry bar between the two ball joints on the bottom of the hub carrier and wiggle it. if either are warn you will see the cup of the ball joint moving, e.g. the end of the arm will move and this is not supposed to happen.
another source of knock is the drop links, you use a pry bar to test these as well, move the ball joint so the ball is being pulled out of the cup, if you can feel movement then it needs replacing.

when my curved arm failed i could wiggle it up and down and feel the knock. but this was only when it was really knackered.

[giblet]

I only had a quick look around as the heavens had opened, will have a better look tomorrow

[Davezj]

if you don't have a pry bar or crow bar and big flat headed screw driver will do, or anything that will give you a lever action to multiply the force you apply.
a piece of 1"x1" angle bar would work.

[giblet]

I was using the metal bar that is used to raise and lower the scissor jack. I may have a crowbar somewhere.

[giblet]

Been running around in my siblings cars for the past few weeks whilst they were away but I'm back in the VR4 now so need to get this sorted.

Is the test for the straight arms to put the car in gear, foot on the brakes and then turn the wheels full lock both sides and listen for any rumbling?

[Davezj]

Been running around in my siblings cars for the past few weeks whilst they were away but I'm back in the VR4 now so need to get this sorted.

Is the test for the straight arms to put the car in gear, foot on the brakes and then turn the wheels full lock both sides and listen for any rumbling?

yes that is the test and it is creaking you are listening for as a basic test. but the brakes can make a noise while you do the turning as well and it sounds like creaking.
but the best test i have found is to put the pry bar from the bottom of the car in between the two ball joints, and wiggle the bar from side to side this should show any movement in the ball joints.
i will try and find the video @adaxo adam showed me.

[giblet]

cheers Dave. I've enjoyed wafting about in a diesel XJ for the past few weeks but it's not a patch on the performance of the VR4. I'll get the car jacked up tomorrow to take a proper look now that the weather has miraculously improved.

[giblet]

Right, I've had another look and I attached an image below just to make sure I'm talking about the right bits.

WP_20140415_11_47_53_Pro.jpg

1 - Curved arm - I can get this to move side to side by a few mm just by grabbing it with my hand and rocking it from side to side. Same amount of movement if using a prybar near the ball joints.
2 - Track rod end - This seems to be at a funny angle, I'm guessing thats not normal? Fair bit of movement in this just by moving it by hand. Due a replacement?
3 - Drop links - minimal movement in these, even with a pry bar.

Thoughts folks?

[Humpty's Revenge]

Right, I've had another look and I attached an image below just to make sure I'm talking about the right bits.

WP_20140415_11_47_53_Pro.jpg

1 - Curved arm - I can get this to move side to side by a few mm just by grabbing it with my hand and rocking it from side to side. Same amount of movement if using a prybar near the ball joints.
2 - Track rod end - This seems to be at a funny angle, I'm guessing thats not normal? Fair bit of movement in this just by moving it by hand. Due a replacement?
3 - Drop links - minimal movement in these, even with a pry bar.

Thoughts folks?

It's the other arm behind the curved arm you need to be inspecting ?

[giblet]

The straight arm? Did the steering wheel test and no noises. No movement in the straight arm and it still has the stickers from the warranty replacement.

[giblet]

The track rod end was the only thing making any noise. I gave everything else a good shake and used a metal bar to move everthing too. It also explains the inner wear on the front tyres.

Thoughts @Davezj?

[Davezj]

you say the curved arm moved side to side by a few mm, but do you maen side to side or do you mean up and down, and is the movement in the arm or is it in the actual balljoint. e.g. is the arm rotating about the ball joint and moving the rubber bush at the rear of the arm or is it the balljoint end that is moving side to side about the fixed point on the hub carrier.
the track rod end position is OK as there is no weight on the wheel, so when the weight is put on the wheel the track rod end will sit much flatter and not at an angle.
when you say there is movement in the track rod end what to mean, do you mean you can rotate it about the length of the steering rack arm, or does the ball joint move about the fixed point in the hub carrier.
a ball joint is designed to move and rotate around the fixed point in the hub carrier but not pull away from the fixed point in the hub carrier.
the ball joint is a exactly what it says it is a ball that is bolted to the hub carrier and the cup of the mating half of the ball joint is held in place by the ball, the cup is designed to move in all direction around the ball but not pull away from the ball with any kind of knock.

does this make sense
the ball joint test, prying one ball joint aganst the other from the bottom of the hub carrier is the best way to tell is one of them has failed. i have tried to find the video of someone doing this but i can't find it. it is much easier to see it for your self to get what i am taling about. i will still tr and find it tomorrow.

[Nick Mann]

What Dave said.

[giblet]

Thanks for the replies. I went down to my local friendly mechanic and spent a good 45 mins with him inspecting everything on both OSF and NSF. He found no play in any of the ball joints but there is some play in the NSF bearing. After a quick test drive he thinks its the rumbling I'm hearing is from that. Seems my ears really are terrible as I thought it was coming from the OSF.

Also looks like the previous owner replaced the OSF track arm but kept the old ends. I had already ordered some ends from Camskill. Alignment is way out which explains the inner tyre wear and play in the steering. Plan is to source either a bearing with a good hub or just get a new bearing. Once its fitted I can get the ends fitted at the same time and then get the alignment done too.