TD04 Bolt on Kit Designing and Manufacturing

[VR4WGN]

Guys its time.........

this i hope wil be the last thread related to dreaded TD04 conversions..
Yes there is as we know it a HUGE amount of Interest Viewed into the TD04 Converisons but nothing "off the shelf" style kits made.

so im going to take aboard this project and complete it.
it wont take 2 weeks or 2 months but longer!!!!!!!

i will have a shell and an engine that we will put in and out of the engine bay MANY times as we Trial Fit the new converison and test for space.

Now the Most important part of this Thread is TO STAY ON TRACK PLEASE!!! No Hijacking or silly questions and replies please..this is soley for the production of the conversion kit ok... i will discuss with Committee on keeping this thread from SPAM,a si will be working off this thread and dont want to browse through the un important replies..
sorry if it seems harsh,but you do understand i hope.

this will earn great Reputation for some of the club members im sure so all those who thrive on their rep will definatly have their opinions viewed then.

There is a few of you Wizards and Gurus here that have a wealth of knowledge in this field both Technically and personally and im calling upon all of you guys please!!

we wil need to tackle 1 base at a time i think,ie starting with the mounting of the Turbo's,etc and so on.

please may someone make "To Do" List and what we need aswell. as im bound to miss something.

it wouldave been awsum if all you guys lived close by so you could pop over regularly to discuss possible flaws and give hands on ideas aswell.

its not going to be easy at all but i think its well worth all the effort involved in it for the gains it will produce.

Again the people that play a huge role in this project will as usual earn themselves a spot in the Que for the first lot of production and a discount (TBD)*


so lets lay the TD04 dilema to rest by making it happen finally....

[bradc]

First of all, you need to TRY to make it so that you do not have to replace the radiator and it's fans. You also have to make it so that nothing else gets in the way or has to be modified in anyway.

The kit should come with:

turbos

manifolds

downpipes finishing so as to bolt up to the position of the stock cat. Primarily because many people will already have decat's and exhaust systems

all gaskets needed for the exhaust

a pipe that replaces the stock piping out of the turbos up to where the stock Y pipe finishes and where the black rubber pipe joins onto

Intake pipe that goes from the stock position of the maf down to the intakes of the turbos that works with both auto's and manuals

Any fittings if needed for the oil and water feeds to and from the turbos

[mpau009]

Second what brad says, the less things you have to remove/replace the better.

Here is Allbeitmines setup from back in the day, but that required extensive cutting etc.. http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12137

My list of boxes to tick would be:

1) Suits a turbo/turbos that are easy and cheap to find
2) Can be fitted by anyone with tools, without having to drop the gearbox or anything to service.
3) Wastegates plumbed back etc / legal
4) Avoids any heat issues / ceramic coating etc that will bump up the costs.

Things i can think you would want to include:

- Manifolds
- Turbos
- External Wastegates
- Oil and Water Lines

I have been putting some thought into this ever since i committed to a single turbo

I think it would be great to have a kit that can be used in stages if possible, for example, one that you could fit the turbos, plug into factory intercooler, bolt up to the cat and run, then have the other parts down the line as add ons,, intercooler kit and pipework to Throttlebody,, Upgraded Throttlebody and rebored plenum,, fuel rail, FPR and Injector upgrade etc,, radiator and fans,, lightweight flywheel & HD clutch,, battery relocation & cold air intake (i have a .dxf template for one that you could use as a base),, Loom adaptor and base map for a link ecu or a reflash,, and on and on and on..

I know mods all need to be supported, and you really need to do the works to get the best results, but if you could compartmentalise it so that different options worked together or on a factory setup, i think it would make a lot more sense from a business standpoint, eg, i might be doing my own thing, but be keen for a fueling upgrade kit and so on. Plus you would be able to price the bolt on turbo kit closer to what people with these 5-10$k value cars might want to spend.

10/10 for giving it a go Q, i guess you are better placed than most of us to pull it off.

[mattnz]

Perhaps if you were to make a kit to bolt on WRX turbos, it would allow some uprated WRX kits (room permitting) to bolt on as well?

[bradc]

I didn't think about wastegates, the kit should be designed to use the stock internal wastegates on the turbos.

Choosing the turbos which is what Matt is talking about is a good point too. You can try for Subaru turbos and in turn if you design everything around the stock TD04's people will have some ability to upgrade and choose their turbos from any Subaru turbo designed for that same car.

The other option would be the GSR or GTO TD04's, there is a big base for the TD04's over in the USA.

[VR4WGN]

must say iv been told ages ago to consider the Subaru Turbos,so tha tis a good starting point,ill need some details on types etc..

personally id love it if you guys where able to do the research,deciding and then throw me the drawings and ill put it into productionand say yy or nay on fitment or other possible issues.

im a hands on guy,not a paperwork or pc junky lol,so its hard for someone with limitd skills in this field to do the research and then still try make it happen..

oil and waterlines are not an issue and i feel can be left for last as theres flexi hoses available so that wont be a problem surely,

i think the primary focus now is looking for suitable paired turbos or whatever.
then lasercut some manifold bolt up plates and then position and mount the turbo temporarily and then build the mani pipework to suit,then head to stage 2??

[bradc]

Simply look for Subaru TD04 turbos.

[VR4WGN]

i think i got a TD04L in the garage...

[Gowf]

Subaru will be easier for a cheaper quick fix. If you go GTO you will have a nightmare, i can assure you. The main problem your going to have is that it is all well and good being able to produce them, but will people buy them? The reason i say this, and not to downcry your efforts, is that it will turn out as expensive no matter how you do it.

With regards to the fans, i really dont think your going to be able to keep them, and you will undoutedly have issues with the front engine mount, oil filter housing or the a/c pump.

This is just going from my own personal experience, for as some of you know it ended up taking a year to get the gto tubs on. admittedly the subaru will be easier due to their flanges, but you'l see what i mean when you start mocking things up.

My original idea had the sale of kits in mind when i was working at Eurospec, but due to the pain and cost of what was involved, it just seemed a pointless excercise due to the market for them.

Like i say, go for it and it would be an amazing thing if you managed to produce a cost effective kit, but just be aware that there are a lot of obstacles in your road.

[VR4WGN]

definatly man ,thank you for the info,i am aware,never the less if the cost is too high for people they must not really want it then! either way i will have TD04's on mine then lol..
~Q~

[djb160]

If it can be done at the same time perhaps one pair of manifolds for internally gated turbo and another pair for those that want externals. Just a thought.

[djb160]

for those that just want an internal wastegate setup wouldn't it be more cost effective to simply make up an adapter plate for the turbo instead of complete manifolds? Someone has already done it but I can't remember who or what turbos (Might have been an OZVR4 member).

[bradc]

There won't be enough room to mount a spacer unless you make one that is basically just a flange and then it won't have very good flow characteristics

[VR4WGN]

tharts true Brad.. BTW i have a TD04L turbo,

[Nutter_John]

rather than make a manifold why not look at getting a new housing cast for the hotside of a td04 bolting to the stock manifolds

[Gowf]

The cost of casting would be far greater than that of making a manifold. Unless you are going to have a large quantity made its just not worth it, Esp as you would still have post casting machining to finish the job off.

[Nutter_John]

Depends where yu get it done , try China for example

[Turbo_Steve]

It's a nice idea, John, but you really would need a few to make it worth tooling up.
China will be cheaper, but you're still looking at >500 units before it's cost effective, and thats without th costs of the CNCing

[VR4WGN]

um my Dad was a toolmaker and pattern maker so he could do it,i just met a guy who owns a Casting Shop aswell who said he would do all the Manifolds and e Newly designed Plenium aswell ,so its just down to drawings and ideas guys.. hit me with all the info and we can look into it

[WildCards]

The Saab 9-5 Aero uses the Mitsubishi TD04HL turbo with a four bolt flange, not sure if that's any use.

Also, the new BMW x35i twin turbo engines use the Mitsubishi TD03-10T I believe, this may open up an avenue for easy upgrades aswell.